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F8 or 488 stereo aftermarket upgrade

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Occraracer, Jan 15, 2021.

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  1. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    Something wrong , no. It cant handle 1000 RMS in its frequency response.

    Maybe i should stop you in your track , im a IASCA Champion 1999 in Armature section that beat every car in the Pro Unlimited section.

    That alone will tell you i am very versed in Audio and especially car audio . Ild prefer you not to say B.S to me mate.

    I dare say you have no idea about IASCA do you ? I was running 5000 watts AB amplification to 6 speakers ( well 8 , 2 that noone ever knew about. )

    The frequency response was 10 to over 20,000 hz +/- < 3 db from octave to octave and played music at over 140 db.

    No pissy 6.5 inch would ever fill the midbass where the subs were 2 x 15 inch and my tweeters weighed more like 5 kgs.

    Crossed over at 60 HZ 24 db close to its highest resistance its weak in this power range. Its a midrange at its best.

    Totally different ball game , lets not confuse the two. One is a PROFESSIONAL SYSTEM AND INSTALLATION designed for competition the other is just a speaker upgrade.
     
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  3. MANDALAY

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    You said DSP ? seriously ( shake my head ) Its called stereo. You know music not some movie with crap sound mixing indiscrimitely through speakers located all around you.

    DSP WILL NEVER fix poorly placed speakers. There was a challenge a long time ago that one could win $10,000 if they could get the 7 snare beats across the soundstage from left to right to be positioned perfectly from both seats of the car using any DSP and no one claimed it. Why because the DSP is a band aid at best.

    The only amount of delay was required between groups of speakers Sub to mid to high NOT left or right.

    So please dont put DSP in the same discussion.

    FYI i used all pro gear in my installation not weak pissy car audio stuff. My signal wires were running over 28 volts not some pissy 2 volts . You can do the calculation , maybe ? my input gains were set a absolute minimum.

    BTW after the pissy Dynaudios went I went on with my system to win EVERY competition in the whole of Australia and was Australasian champion. The same system lasted in my car until I sold my BMW 16 years and never skipped a beat.

    So with due respect i do know audio and especially car audio the same way i respect you in your knowledge of these cars.
     
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  4. xBox

    xBox Formula Junior

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    LOL!!!! Car audio.... compromise after compromise, from a compromised starting position..... and that before you add variable engine and road noise.
     
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  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    I don't care if you're Napoleon. If you can fry a driver in 5 seconds, you're doing something wrong.
     
  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Where did I EVER substitute the word Stereo for DSP? What the hell are you on about? Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't care what you are and I'm not easily impressed. So many in that industry who do all sorts of competition, and many who know jack about it.

    I NEVER said DSP can fix poor driver locations. I shy away from DSP when ever I can. Adding filters usually just adds to the problem rather than solve it. BUT, when dealing with a situation where you cannot change the location, you have to resort to alternatives. What CAN you do with DSP that is not too intrusive? Well, you can at the very least try to get the time alignment correct. That will always help a lot. Then you can make sure your cross over points are as good as can be. Are we still on the same page? Good. Now if we start talking various filters i.e PEQ or GEQ, well then I'm not a huge fan. I will use a bit if needed, as you always try to do as you need to adjust to the room.

    Stop putting words in my mouth and make assumptions on my behalf. I shake my head too reading your post. You need give your ego a rest, and try to understand that others besides you might also know a thing or two, and you also need to understand that there's more than one way of doing things.

    And lastly, just to finish off that 5 second driver burn. Eh, which Dynaudio midbass driver is rated for 1000 watts cont. I take it that it is what you mean by RMS. I believe they are about 100-200 watts AES rated off the top of my head. So if you think you can put 1000 watts into those from about 55 hz and up, yep that will fry them alright. If you meant to say that they are rated at 1000 watts for peak power which is about right for a 200-250 AES rated driver, (I don't think they publicise that peak number), peak is much less than 5 seconds.
    If you put 1000 watts cont. though a driver with a sensitivity of about 90 db or so, using a signal that has a crest factor of what, 9-12 db, that would be so overly loud that you could not possibly hear anything worth a damn. Even when I did sound for a large venue, I never tested anything above 100 db, even thought the venue might have called for 110-115 db @ FOH. It all becomes distortion in your ears when you get into the 120 db range, sooner for some, not to mention all the reflections that also gets amplified. If you throw 1000 watts cont. at a driver with 90 db sensitivity, you are looking at 120 db average with peaks well into the 128-130 db range using 1000 watts cont. Not entirely sure what you were testing for an SQ setup that called for that. Like I said, I know my audio too, you are not the only one so stop trying to twist what I say.

    I will respect you and generally do, but I get upset when you put words into my mouth.

    Let's leave it here. I'm not in this to fight you and normally we get along fine. I wish to keep it like that. In retrospect, I will also apologize for the Napoleon remark. It was uncalled for.
     
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  8. SoftwareDrone

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    Talk about an initially informative thread on 488 car audio going off the rails! (LOL)
     
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  9. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Probably just like lunch at the Montana when designers and the engineers debate design changes needed or not needed...:D
     
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  10. MANDALAY

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    I believe you used the word DPS so im not putting words in your mouth. Maybe you should read your own comments. I have zero patience for anyone that states a DSP to help things for poor speaker placement, with that i mean time alignment adjustments from left and right speakers. It does nothing.

    I told you my back ground so you don't talk **** to me because I know very well about this topic. Back in 1990 i was using equipment from audio engineers .

    What i said it is weak it cannot handle 1000 watts RMS. What part of that do you not understand ? Reread and you will see I said it cannot handle 1000 watts .
    I did NOT say that the manufacturer says it can and it doesn't.

    If you were into sanctioned car audio events and even a member of IASCA you would be well aware of the things that are involved. Many don't and think its just loud stereo , well it isn't.

    I dare say when I tell you i put close to 500 watts RMS in my Tweeters or 2000 watts to my subs you would even question that.

    Imagine 130 db from 2 tweeters .

    I had noise gates to even kill the speakers when there was no signal.

    Your vision of car audio is so left of mine and 100's of other dedicated enthusiasts.
     
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  11. MANDALAY

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    The most compromising thing in Car Audio is speaker placement. Want to be up there with the best you need to start with the right car to diminish the compromise.

    The other way around and it will always be a ,ok , nothing really special.

    There is more into car audio than just a car with a stereo. Lets put it this way i spent 2 years building my system with the equipment only costing twice of the car and the car cost $65 K. What im talking about is like trying to compare a LaFerrari with a KIA.
     
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  13. xBox

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    I wonder when in the design process Ferrari decide on speaker placement?

    Maybe just an afterthought? One in each door, something in the A-pillars and job done.

    My expectations were low for the factory kit, but at least it’s OK for voice.
     
  14. MANDALAY

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  15. MANDALAY

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    Don't get me wrong simple. The stereos that come out with cars will suit 90 plus percent of the population. Even just a mild alteration like better speakers and amps will do the other 5-8 percent. The remaining are the car audio guys and I mean Audiophile not SPL.

    All car manufacturers put speakers where they fit , full stop. Some might sound good to your ears and that's ok also. But 100% all lack any audiophile expectations because the speakers are in the wrong location. Definitely an after thought.

    Look at subwoofers which year did manufacturers start installing them ? I had subs in 1979 and hell no-one even understood why I had them.

    The very simple test to ascertain how good a system is , use a CD like Autosound 2000 test disc. It has 7 snear beats panning from left to right.
    Whilst in the driver side the beats should be at the same hight and same distant apart from each beat. The same should be heard whilst in the passenger seat.

    A DSP will not fix that , IT CANNOT. This is bad speaker placement and your stuck with it.

    Notice that the left speaker is louder to you ? That's because you are closer to it. The speaker placement improves as the speakers are placed further from you because as they are the distance between the left and right to your head shortens. When the lenght is < than 6 inches , the width of your head you will then start to hear proper Stereo and the snare beats will even out.

    Thats why car audio guys and gals improve speaker placement.
     
  16. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    This looks like fun; the RR Bespoke Audio play list >

    • Wish You Were Here – Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here [1975]
    • From Here to Eternity – Giorgio Moroder, From Here to Eternity [1977]
    • Across the Lines – Tracy Chapman, self-titled [1988]
    • Sad But True – Metallica, self-titled [1991]
    • Bembe / Abakwa – Terry Bozzio, Solo Drum Music II [1992]
    • Klangfarben Melodie – Terry Bozzio, Solo Drum Music II [1992]
    • Know Your Enemy – Rage Against the Machine, self-titled [1992]
    • Fistful of Steel – Rage Against the Machine, self-titled [1992]
    • Passion – Gat Décor (Naked Edit) [1992]
    • Where Did You Sleep Last Night? – Nirvana, MTV Unplugged in New York (Live) [1993]
    • Stimela (The Coal Train) – Hugh Masekela, Hope (Live) [1994]
    • Hotel California – The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over (Live) [1994]
    • Paranoid Android – Radiohead, OK Computer [1997]
    • Lyric Lickin – Del The Funky Homosapien, Future Development [1997]
    • Insomnia – Faithless, Insomnia [1995]
    • Raining in Baltimore – Counting Crows, Across a Wire: Live in New York City (Live) [1998]
    • Safe in New York City – AC/DC, Stiff Upper Lip [Deluxe Edition] [2000]
    • Scrappy – Wookie, Wookie (Deluxe Edition) [2000]
    • Marionette – Matthew Jonson [2004]
    • Intro – Nemesea, Pure: Live @ P3 (Remixed & Remastered) [2012]
    • Bass Solo – Nemesea, Pure: Live @ P3 (Remixed & Remastered) [2012]
    • Drum Solo – Nemesea, Pure: Live @ P3 (Remixed & Remastered) [2012]
    A music test drive...
     
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  17. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    There are also a lot of albums from Sheffield labs. Awesome way they do their recordings.

    One thing for sure it is so satisfying listening to a real well executed car system. When its done right the performer extends right out of the limits of your car. Its sounds as though they are 5 feet in front of your car.


    A pair of radioshack little shelf speakers put in the kick panel sound better that 90 % of factory systems but alas you cannot drive with them there.
     
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  18. xBox

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    Base system must make it a harder upgrade task - right?

    I’m OK with it though, haven’t even listened to anything in the 812 yet. I just find the drive consumes me and is so totally immersive.
     
  19. MANDALAY

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    I cannot answer that question as im not familiar with the wiring in the Ferrari and how they execute their systems . But there are those doing upgrades and will improve it a bit .

    BUT i didn't buy a Ferrari to have a terrific sound system. Talk back is enough for me or a CD with little background sound.
     
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  20. SoftwareDrone

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    The base system is MUCH easier to upgrade than the JBL optioned cars. I've done both.
     
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  21. xBox

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    Interesting, what would be your suggestion for a phased DIY approach?
     
  22. mdrums

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    I have the base system.... I never listen to it. Besides upgrading all the speakers are there easy plug and play lightweight amps to add? Is there some sort of interface needed between the head unit to the amps?
    What scares me most is having a shop take apart the door panels and dash to replace speakers and access the rear of the head unit. My car has zero rattles and I’d hate to ruin that
     
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  23. SoftwareDrone

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    If I had a 488 and I wanted to upgrade a bit at a time, I would definitely start with the midrange speakers in the doors. The stock units in the base system are horrible, cheap paper coned units with tiny magnets. The stock units in the JBL optioned cars are 200mm carbon fiber subwoofers. It sounds impressive on paper, but the door is the last place you want a subwoofer. I've had many customers tell me that simply replacing those speakers with no other changes whatsoever results in a significant improvement in the sound quality.
    With the 488, you remove the tweeter grill (ring) in the door, then remove the tweeter itself, then the two bolts surrounding the tweeter, then remove the five remaining bolts that hold the door cover onto the door and that's about it.
    The next step would be to add a high end set of tweeters. The 458/488/F8 have these small black plastic triangle decorative pieces sitting on the bottom of the A pillar of each door. There are 3D printed units available that replace those triangles with tweeter holders that actually point the tweeter right at the driver and passenger for perfect stereo imaging. It's a two minute swap and you keep your original triangles for when you sell the car. The stock tweeters point the sound straight at the other tweeter, horrible design.
    If you want any more details than this, PM me.
     
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  24. SoftwareDrone

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    I've had a 458 owner or two report back that after removing the dash covers and reinstalling, they had a squeak. I've never heard any reports of a door cover squeaking after an R&R.
    Fortunately, the 458 owners no longer need to remove the dash covers to upgrade their tweeters (see above post). This is not an issue for the 488 folks as the tweeters are in the doors.
    PM me for details.
     
  25. AD211

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    I’m a satisfied customer!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  26. SoftwareDrone

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    Thank you Andy.
     
  27. gabf1

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    Anyone know someone good in the San Fernando valley? I have no squeakers and rattles in my car and want to keep it that way. Thinking of doing either a simple speaker upgrade or maybe adding an amp.
     
  28. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Check out Fantazy Motorsports. They've done tons of 458's, 488's, 430's, etc. They are familiar with my products.
    Speak with Zack.
    747-254-1634
     

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