FCA Platinum winners: What kept you from 100 points?

I lost points because my original interior had too much patina. Also, had the white film that is found on some rubber weatherstripping. Still made platinum though. I found the judges to be fair and experienced and knowledgeable.
Ed

 

Does this mean you have to replace the original interior with new ?

 

+1, please define "too much patina." Seems very abstract, but then I am far from an expert in this area.

 

At Cavallino a couple of years ago my Dino lost points for incorrect finish on targa top, missing locking bar for the gas/trunk/engine cover levers, missing radio blank plate, trunk carpet and a couple of other items giving the car a 94-1/2 score........just missing the Platinum.

Now that these items have been addressed Round 2 is coming. And if it achieves Platinum the car will go downhill from there. Miles will be the next goal.
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Nothing better than driving something like this down to 80 points

Life is too short, enjoy it, looks pretty !

 

While not asked, at Pebble 100 point Ferraris are scarce indeed I had heard Robert Phillips' Mondial was the 3rd or 4th to date If not, Parker, Chris or someone please correct me, M

 

I have never seen this car but have an extensive file.What is most important to me about this restoration is,yes the many years involved, but the extent to which the restoration centered around returning to the car to how it was in 1955 when owned by Picard. There are so many expensive restorations out there that do no justice to what the original was all about. Isn't the original of these classics from the 1940s, 50s and 60s really what it is supposed to be? A restoration of a 250 TR or GTO that makes it look like a Country Club chit chat car! There should be should be serious points taken away for such a travestry. Only when opinions and scores start to reflect the extent to which originality is achieved in restorations will the scene improved. My opinion is there needs to be much more emphasis put on what was original such as appears to be that case with the Antique car collectors. tongascrew

 

Good question and interesting thread. My car scored 97 points at last year’s Cavallino and will share some of my thoughts about the deductions. The major issue or deduction of one point was attributed to a bend in the front hood earlier in the car’s life. Although the original owner was meticulous in caring for the car as I am, the repair was near perfect yet received the one point deduction due to a noticeable weld. The judge’s comments were most 328s were prone to this issue before the switch to the pneumatic strut during the mid-year production. The second major deduction the car received, one point, was the slight imperfection of the dye color used on the leather seats. Although the difference in color is very, very slight and only noticed if the original leather under the seats or behind the door panel storage area were compared. I have given much thought and consideration to reupholstering the interior and have read the various threads on this topic throughout F Chat. My decision was ultimately to maintain or preserve the original interior, since the cars are original only once. The final one point deduction was due to the radio speakers being installed and exposed on both door panels. I have since had this issue corrected after an exhaustive search for the replacement door panel carpets. Many thanks to Brian at Ferrparts.

I believe the issue is one of preservation versus perfection. Although a tremendous amount of time, effort and money are dedicated to preparation, the goal is still “near perfection” and originality, since there exists the ultimate deduction of “over restoration”. I also believe each owner must make the decision of whether to drive and enjoy the car or pursue the never ending endeavor of perfection. I have chosen a point in the middle after debating with my obsessive character.

In closing, my car will be at Cavallino next week and hope to improve last year’s score slightly after correcting the issue of the door panels. I also want to thank Tim Stanford and Eddy Fiuza for all the work they have done on my car and acceptance of my obsessiveness of “near perfection”.

All the best.

 

A couple of years ago, Robert told me that the car was scored 99.5 at a concourse, with the 1/2 point deduction due to an oil drip. He knew about the minor leak, but just forgot to wipe off the drop.

 

Jon Shirley took his Pebble Beach 2008 Best of Show (Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B Touring Berlinetta) on an Alfa club rally a couple of weeks after the concourse. It was down to a silver point car by the end of the rally!

 

If they really want four cylinder Ferrari engines to be original, they should have oil leaks. I have been watching this thread with interest and trying to keep myself from getting started with comments, but this whole concours issue has gotten out of control. It has reached the point where there are now two ways to restore cars; to win concours awards, or as the car was originally built by the factory. An original factory build of a pre-1960 Ferrari will NEVER win a major concours, believe me I know. With the later post-1976 cars, the factory build techniques began to be consistent enough that today's judges have some hope of knowing how the car was built. I have yet to see a major concours where more than one half of the Ferrari judges were truly knowledgeable about the cars they were judging. I better shut up now.

 

Should't points be deducted if they were aligned...?

 

Reading this thread I seriously wonder how much points a new 328 GTB would have gotten...

Deduction:
oil leaks: 1 point
plastic covers: 1 point
paint quality :2 points
panel fit: 5 points
different screws: 1 point
not working interior lights: 2 points
incomplete tool set: 2 points
greasy engine bay: 2 points
Chrome quality: 2 points
Wrong tyres: 1 point


ciao
Oscar

 

Great! You're in the field.

Just remember that the main criteria for judging is: How does the car compare now as to when it left the factory. So, replace the tire valve-stems caps with the little cavallinos with plain black rubber caps; replace the "My Other Car is a Ferrari" license plate trim; and don't over do it on the tire dressing. They didn't come so glossy that you can read a newspaper in the reflection. Remove the sheep-skin seat covers too.

If its not factory original...get rid of it! Exceptions are tires, batteries and hoses. But the hose clamps need to be period correct. That's just for starters.

Good luck folks!

 

DWR46 - I do believe that be correct, but (and no disrespect intended here) before you ask or expect to be "believed" only because you say "believe me", please tell us your credentials and why, with only 100-some posts, you should be believed. Thanks.

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system.... perhaps only slightly off-topic, I once attended a show (back in the early 90's) where a VERY NICE 328 had been trailered in, yet was given points deductions for an engine bay that was too clean ("Ferrari's are meant to be driven!"; hence, there should be *some* road grime there). The wife stated to the judges that it was always that clean - she routinely got down in the nooks and crannies with a toothbrush to get the dust and dirt out. If I recall correctly, they still won their class.

FWIW.

gp

 

Personally, I think a well-preserved 40 or 50 year old interior should rate higher than a new replacement. If it's truly worn, that's a different story, but patina on anything well-preserved (not excessively worn) should be a positive rather than a negative. I appreciate a well preserved car much more than one that just been rebuilt ground-up. Of course, what I think doesn't matter, they will judge as they see fit.

The judges aren't always right. I received a deduction in an FCA concours for my Mondial 3.2 intake plenum wrinkle paint being "too orange". Mine was actually the original paint, but so many cars have been repainted with VHT red wrinkle paint, (which is much more red than original) that that color became the standard. The VHT red looks much better than the original orangish color, but it isn't correct (and actually isn't very close in color to correct).

 

Mr Ridgley's credentials are pretty pretty strong and his views and opinions come from DECADES of experience restoring and repairing Ferraris.

Not to belittle you, but you questioning his cred is like some newby questioning Mr Massini's credentials. F-Chatters should feel fortunate Mr Ridgley takes the time to visit and contribute to this forum. Regarding post-count as a measure of believability, Tim Stanford (top S. Florida vintage Ferrari wrench) doesn't have many posts either...he's too busy working on cars. Yet, those in the know, respect his input here.

KevFla

 

On the other hand a 360GT racer is a racer and thats what the cars are meant for....;-)

Ciao
Oscar

 

Absolutely correct; for one thing, the four cyl motor did not have a rear main seal, and the engines tilt slightly backwards, so when left parked for any appreciable amount of time, you'll have not just drips, but a decent amount of oil pooling on the pavement.

Our rubric for the restoration/preservation effort on 0556(0446)MD was to return the car back to how it left the factory in May 1955; the livery is the one it had when it ran as a factory team car at the Venezuela GP in 55. We were in the extremely enviable position of having a very original car to start with, and we knew pretty much everything that had ever happened to it, since we had owned it since May 1960. We also determined that the car was not going to be a static display and was going to be driven on the track. So every single piece of the car that was functional (which on a comp car is pretty much everything), had to be fully sorted and either reconditioned if possible, or replaced (seals, fuel/fluid lines, wiring, the wires on the Borranis . . .).

That left the aesthetic portions of the car to deal with - body/paint and upholstery. Pierre Mellinger did a fantastic job on 0564(0424)MD in removing the top layers of paint to reveal the original French Racing Blue. In our case, my father had taken the car to bare metal when he bought it 1960 - it had worn 4 different colors in the five years before he got it. The metal body is all original with the exception of the right rear quarter which was severely crunched at Nassau '56. The body had a lot of scars, the vast majority of which came from its storage in our garage after dad stopped racing it in 1967; we decided that keeping the damage caused by having stored boxes on it, close encounters w/ the lanwmower and my moronic teenage habit of leaning my bike on it, lent absolutely nothing to its previous career as a race car - so those scars were removed. However, all of the eccentricities and asymmetries in the original Scaglietti body work were left alone. We replicated the paint system as reasonably as possible; it received a coat of a single-stage paint and was not buffed, wet-sanded nor polished. A friend of mine who owns a detailing business saw the car after Pebble Beach and said, somewhat horrified, "give me eight hours, and I can get rid of most of that orange peel!" Dad had replaced the upholstery in 1960, so the seats were re-done in the proper vinyl. The now-famous grape vines were left at the edges of the aluminum buckets.

As far as concours scoring, we recieve 100 points at Pebble, Cavallino and the FCA National in '11. The Pebble score was originally 99.5 because of a disagreement over the direction of the engine mount bolts; that was rectified w/ photographic proof after the show and the score adjusted to 100. The Cavallino score was also originally 99.5 over the issue of whether the car would have had wooden or rubber foot pedal coverings. This was also rectified by letter and proof (rubber is correct for a Series II Mondial) and the score again adjusted to 100. As for the "oil drip", it was actually a combination of minor oil, brake and coolant drops. (FCA National '09). What can you say? It's what race cars and vintage Ferraris do. We're at the point now where trophies are fun, but having people see/hear the car and educating younger tifosi as to how things were back in the day has become the principal joy.

We learned thru this process that the mission of the "binder" that goes with most of the old cars in the big shows is not so much to show the restoration process, but to provide the historical evidence that any special features or anamolies with the particualr car are original to that car. In additon to detailing the history of 0556(0446)MD, our binder is filled with measured photos showing the original asymmetries in the bodywork as well as back-up data sheets showing Factory modifications such as the extended lock-out tab, locking out both reverse and first gears (which was unusual). The idea here is that you pre-empt these questions from the judges w/ the evidence.

My advice would be to become an expert on your own car; research its history, the history of the model, the history of the Factory before and during the time you car would have been manufactured. You may find yourself educating the judges.

 

With all due respect I do believe that is changing. One of Ed Gilbertsons goals was to try and make the judging have a greater respect for what the cars were and not the perfect Barbie dolls that a restorer wants to make it. That was a big reason IAC/PFA came to be. It has been a long hard battle that is not over yet but I do believe it is getting better. I have confidence that Parker will continue to work towards Ed's ultimate goal.

I also agree whole heartedly about the lack of qualified judges. I am one and I know from first hand experience that there is simply not enough available in any given place on any given weekend to judge a large event.

It has been hard to break some of the attitude that the goal is perfection rather than keeping the cars representative of what Ferrari built but in the case of the early big dollar cars the owners are often as guilty or more so of wanting cookie cutter perfection as anyone so we cant blame that solely on concours judges.

 

Our 90 TR recieved 98.5 at the 2012 FCA National meet. It also got the late model Preservation Award and a Coppa Bella Macchina.

Having been on both sides I can say I could make an argument about the deductions but I know judges are really really reluctant to give 100 pts. If a car gets 100 pts in a well judged class it is a very impressive feat.

 

Once asked a well known restorer and sometime judge about a specific 100 point car - his answer, "that was politics." FWIW.