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Ferrari 275 GTB 08011 nose & grille shape

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Vintage V12, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
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    #1 Vintage V12, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
    The nose and grille on Ferrari 275 GTB 08011 are very different from the standard long nose 2 cam Scaglietti shape seen on most 2 cam long nose cars. Is something special about this car and the factory made those changes? and why?
    The car is going to auction in Monterey next month.
     
  2. jlotman

    jlotman Rookie

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    I am not sure what you mean, there is nothing wrong with the nose, as it has the Classique, and multiple platinum awards, which it never would have won if you are correct. If you are referring to some of the vintage pics, it was fitted with headlights so the original owner can see, then converted back. I am not sure if your goal here is to just bad mouth the car or why you would say that?
     
  3. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

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    #3 Vintage V12, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    I am not bad mouthing the car. I am very interested in the history and variations on the 275 GTB cars. I study these cars in detail and track the whereabouts of all of them. This is a hobby of mine. The nose on 08011 is very nice but obviously a different shape from what I am used to seeing on a long nose 2 cam. The fact that is is "certified" means nothing to me. The fact that it has multiple awards means nothing to me either. Many judges have no idea of the important details. Why does the grille have 11 vertical fins when 10 is standard on a 2 cam? Was this a special order? Again, I just want to learn about the history of this car, not bad mouthing. It's beautiful. I would love to own it.
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  4. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
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    The original poster is correct in understanding the nuances of the grille. A long-nose two cam grille has typically 10 vertical slats; a 4-cam grille is slightly wider with an additional vertical slat. Note also the difference in the distance from the signal light to the edge of the grille opening.in the comparison. No disrespect, but if one expects that Classiche understands such nuance, I have a bridge for sale... It is possible that this car was built this way or sometime in its past it may had a repair with a 4-cam grille. Not aware of the history of this example. Many 275's have had nose damage in their history, such nose repair was common, and you got what was available in the day. I have seen 08011 and it is indeed a very nice restoration overall and someone fortunate will appreciate it at auction. Here is 08163, very original,10 verticals.
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  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I see no bad mouthing, I believe it was a fair question. I don't think he is questioning provenenace, but the details and background of the variance. I see it was answered in good faith.

    Beautiful car and best wishes to you all!
     
  6. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

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    I did some more digging. On the Barcehtta site it mentions this car had modifications done in the grille area to install driving lights for the Monte Carlo Rally, then in 1970 a new nose was installed at Scaglietti. Maybe they used a 4 cam nose? This is what makes these cars interesting.
     
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  7. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    Methinks someone doth protest too much!;)

    Classiche is a bit like speed cameras - revenue generator is the first priority. And I am not sure the concours judges are necessarily as knowledgeable / diligent as they might be either. Looks to me as though this car has the wrong nose, probably for the reason suggested in the previous post.
     
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  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    08011:
    Scaglietti in Modena replaced the nose in 1973 (not 1970 as mentioned elsewhere).

    Marcel Massini
     
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  9. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    In the day, at the factory (Scaglietti), it was normal practice to repair cars that came back to the factory for work with the latest version of the components. This is one reason that a number of Short Nose GTB's now have a "long nose". When crashed, they went to Scaglietti for repair and no owner at the time would refuse the offer to repair the car to look like the "latest" version at no additional cost. The factory was not in the Concours business, they wanted to sell and service cars. The current nose was done at the factory.
     
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  10. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    Achingly beautiful car, by the way!:)
     
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  11. jlotman

    jlotman Rookie

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    HMMMM - you got me - let me try and find out....you are truly someone that loves the details, sorry to accuse you of something you were not doing.....stay tuned
     
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  12. jlotman

    jlotman Rookie

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    yes I agree 100% now that I see his pics - good call and a good question i might ad.....that I see Marcel has answered....
     
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  13. jlotman

    jlotman Rookie

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    yes I agree no bad-mouthing was done 100% now that I see his pics - good call and a good question i might add.....that I see Marcel has answered....
     
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  14. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Gorgeous car BTW!!! Drive in good health!
     
  15. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    I have looked into this a lot, and agree with the basic premise that the two cam long nose cars had ten upright slats in the grill and the four cam cars had eleven.

    However some years ago I came to another conclusion, that the alloy bodied long nose cars, including the GTB/C's had a more oval shape to the grill originally, whereas the steel bodied cars had more of a smile.

    Compare period pictures of #9027. This car clearly had a more oval grill when new. It has now been restored with the smiling grill. And #9051 also has a smiling grill and for some reason has an eleven slat grill too ! Compare the period pictures of it, to how it is now.

    Here is a picture of alloy bodied #8277, owned by me a few years back. I looked at the car and it's history closely, and could find no reason to think the grill and it's shape were not original and correct.

    Mark

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  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Here's 09027 originally and then again at RM Sotheby's in London 2013. As Mark says it has since been restored. This happened by Carrozzeria Mirage in Modena and it's been factory certified. See also TOFM magazine issue #42 of March 2019.

    Marcel Massini

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  17. GIOTTO

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  18. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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  19. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    I expect it would be extremely hard or impossible to find a 275 GTB today that has an untouched nose since it was a new car. in addition, at the time of construction, it would have been fairly hard to find two identical noses. The 275 bodies were built using power hammers, but humans operated the hammers.
     
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  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    And this is the old original wooden buck for the 275 GTB.
    I took this at Brandoli's in 1985.
    The second photo shows a "similar" buck taken also at Brandoli's but in 2013.

    Marcel Massini

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  21. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

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  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Could the difference in the shape and larger size of the grille on the 275 GTB/C and 275 GTB/4 be explained by the fact that they are dry sumped? I believe the 275 GTB/C has an oil cooler in front of the water radiator as did the early 275 GTB/4, which was later discontinued due to overcooling.

    275 GTB/4 oil reservoir. Pic Eurospares.

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  23. Nembo1777

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    Nart Spyder being made from a Berlinetta behind the yellow nose jig...
     
  24. 3COL

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  25. GIOTTO

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    They still do that...?
     

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