Ferrari 308 GTS Vetroresina Prototype

With Ferrari anything is possible especially in the 70s but....

Other 'changes' include 80's style wing mirrors, incorrect area above incorrect exhaust (should be single pipe with semicircular notch above), US reflectors etc

If it had been a 1976 parts bin car or taken from the fiberglass line for conversion it should have had the reversing light bumper & different rear lights

By the official launch at Frankfurt 1977 there were press photos of a European car so it seems very likely that the same car (or one very similar) would have been on their stand so they would not have needed to display any prototype

We really need a clear photo of the area marked in post 21

 

Correction to above: if it was a US car my comments about rear lights/bumper are inaccurate but it is still missing the US bumper and area above the exhaust (& possibly US spec exhaust)

 

We're speculating here Jimmie...

But: IF (that is, IF) the car was indeed a prototype intended for the US market (you note that it has US Reflectors) THEN the area above the exhaust is indeed correct: all US 308 had quad-pipes exhaust, the single pipe exhaust/single notch is strictly an "euro" thing.
Note that the "308 GTS" badge on the rear panel is glued much too high; but any 40 years old car could very well have been repainted at least once...

I saw a picture of the area marked in post 21 four years ago; if my memory, etc...it showed only a chassis bar from which the chassis numbers have been machine-erased with a grinding disc: the car indeed has no chassis number.

Rgds

 

What happened to the Classische which was 'underway' 4 years ago?

No reversing lights in the bumper?

 

There has to be a body number as well………..
Any iPhone can make a photo.
I look forward to see it.

Marcel Massini

 

You're joking, right? Cynism, or irony?
Very probably, there wasn't any "Classiche Certification" underway whatsoever. Nor was that car inspected by "a knowledgeable person from Ferrari"; just traditional auction B.S...
If the car were to be "Classiche Certified", we would know by now...and there would be no question raised.

Rgds

 

Having looked at the photos of the car here are some of the oddities that jump out at me:

- Rectangular side markers look like a USA size on the back and a non-Ferrari size on the front. The placement of the marker is not consistent with a Euro car which of course should have a round marker in the front fender

- Side mirrors are from an early 80's car and of course have been painted red at some time in the life of this car.

- Single tip exhaust but double cut out on the rear valence is an odd situation. Likely the rear valence is from a later car

- Placement of the 308 GTS on the rear is totally off from factory placement. If this was truly a factory prototype of some sort the GTS badge would not have existed and they likely would not have bothered to make a one off for show.

- Something looks off on the details in the front lower spoiler. I suspect this is a non-Ferrari part or maybe a replica piece

- The seats, door panels and consoles are all from a later (post 1980-81) 308 but this car retains the two gauges left of the steering wheel used in the earlier cars

- The biggest clue is in the inner door sills. A GTS has a much larger sill to handle the needed stiffness of a cut top. This car has a GTB sill

- The window frame has the Vetro seam on it but does not have the air deflecting lip on the top edge as seen in a GTS

- Rivets in the engine bay point to a Vetro car

- Engine is not dry sump as expected but appears to be a Euro GT4 or Euro GTS engine (as no GTS' were dry sump)

- Front compartment is vinyl as on an early car but has the plastic washer bottle of a later car. Really early cars have a cover with a screw over the master cylinder. Likely that whole piece is not original to the chassis.

- Single hood latch in the front points to an earlier chassis (1976)

My opinion is that this car began life as a 1976 Vetro car that was possibly stolen at some time. In the 80's it became a parts bin bastard where the engine, interior, and other bits were put together and the roof was cut off to make a GTS at a time when Magnum PI was all the rage and everyone wanted a GTS.

NOTHING about this car points to a factory built period prototype.

To the gentleman who started this thread I will respectfully point out that a number of very well respected people here have taken time to try and decipher your car offering very useful information. Some of them have asked for some very basic info about this car and you have not yet provided it. This forum is a two way street and it would be proper to provide more info even if it means that you may discover some truths you may not want to hear. You came here looking for information and you will likely get all the info you will ever want provided you do your part. As a collector I am sure you can appreciate this and reciprocate accordingly.

 

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

PS: I currently show 51 (fifty one) Ferrari 308 GTB and GTS stolen since 1977 in Europe.

Marcel Massini

 

love a good mystery!

 

This car is on Instagram as well. There is no evidence forthcoming. Here is quote from Instagram (by the OP of this thread):

"Ferrari built this car as a prototype shell for the launch of the 308 GTS. It was never meant to be a road going vehicle so no vin or chassis number. Your 15 or so experts have neither seen the car in the flesh or seen the paperwork which comes with the car. I do, so I think we will leave it at that."

OP says there is paperwork, and hints that this proves the story. When I suggested he post it to Instagram, he replied: "I do not need to prove anything."

Link to the thread with all the comments: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk4iBqHHq-4/?hl=en

I have tried in vain to glean more details, but am being shot down by his followers for being 'disrespectful'. Eugh... I give up. This car has been openly referred to as "Literally the first prototype Ferrari 308 GTS ever produced by Ferrari & Pininfarina for the 1977 Frankfurt motorshow", but I'm the one being disrespectful for politely saying there is absolutely no evidence for this (and that - as has been suggested above - we would all be delighted to be proved wrong if there is).

-Ed

 

That is soo funny! - Even the F1 cars that will never be used on the public highway have a chassis number to identify them! (a simpler number system than the road cars, but they all have individual chassis numbers).

I'd be willing to bet a years wages (which isn't very much! ), that if you were to ask Ferrari, they'd confirm that every single car they build, and have ever built since Enzo Ferrari built the Auto Avio 815, including all of their prototypes, have had some form of chassis number, that has never been cut out by them and used on the road.

This car is blatantly a butchered Vetroresina GTB without a chassis/V.I.N number now to avoid any positive identification, that is basically worthless now as it cannot be used (legally) on the public road without a valid chassis/V.I.N number.

It looks to me like the OP was hoping to use FerrariChat to help prop up his story and his claim as to what the car really is, but has been caught out the expertise and knowledge on this site!

The OP claims he doesn't have to prove anything? - If you're selling a car with cut out chassis/V.I.N numbers, and you're claiming it to be a prototype, and a piece of Ferrari history, then you need to prove everything, and beyond any doubt! (something for which the OP is failing miserably at!)

 

https://dms.licdn.com/playback/C5605AQEZ4BMhKZDupQ/5c09b79c3eeb40b89ea43f6b04667f30/feedshare-mp4_500-captions-thumbnails/1507940118923-hysdc8?e=1531188000&v=beta&t=pOs4Y8Z1w8QZqjhDy53PGP9P_VYrksa6IQzB2QFSAaw

This is the vehicle in question?

 

Yes - so presumably it is being resprayed prior to sale - I see OP has been back and seen most of these replies but not commented

 

Absolutely.
Appears to be a time waster.

Marcel Massini

 

With ZERO documentation proving its provenance, and total radio silence on the part of the owner, in addition to gross historical inconsistencies from the photos we have seen so far, we can only conclude that this car is NOT a factory prototype and the early 80's parts bin special it appears to be. Until proven otherwise, to continue to claim this to be a factory prototype is both dishonest and misleading.

From my experience 'collectors' who claim to have documentation but will not allow it to be seen in reality have NOTHING and are trying to create history out of thin air. I agree with Marcel that this person has shown themselves to be a time waster. Hopefully this thread will prevent a future buyer of this fraud from being deceived.

 

BUMP.

Marcel Massini

 

Update - per his Instagram posts, this is the car the OP believes / claims he owns.

-Ed
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Well that's progress of sorts - reference to 77 Show and exhaust cut-outs look similar but no US side reflectors

So the possible scenario is that the car never saw the Ferrari factory but was built by Pininfarina as a sort of proof of concept (hence no s/n) and ended up on their 77 Frankfurt stand before being stored out back and then being released

 

Absolutely not.
And we know that the poreviously existing numbers were CUT OUT. See earlier photo (post #21).
Why? Most probably because the car was once either stolen, restamped or the numbers were fiddled around with and this may well have been the case for the seizure by the authorities.
Where is the OP? Still no documentation? A car purchased without any paperwork?

Amused.

Marcel Massini

 

Steve. Take this with a grain of salt.

You state in your post above "without a shadow of a doubt" in your mind, it is the prototype. That's fine, but with important cars, these facts must be proven with cold hard evidence.

My $.02 would be to contact the Factory, and if it is indeed what you say it is and believe, then they should not have any issue coming to verify this, or at least providing documents straight from Maranello.

Sorry to hear about your daughter, I have a 3.5 year old girl, and understand the Dad vibe on something horrible like that.

Again, it's one thing though to have an informed opinion on your car, and another to prove that it is what it is. Marcel is correct in stating without documentation or paperwork, a lack of provenance here means little until that part is solved.

 

Again Steve, playing Devil's Advocate, but a few more outside perspective insights.

You recently joined, didn't introduce yourself, posted a car that has been discussed before and seems to NOT have a concrete following of "evidence", and asked for help or assistance in ID-ing it. This site is really really good with helping people, but sometimes, especially if you're new, it's best to ease into situations that involve proving the rarity or originality of a car, ID tag, specific part, or etc. That's just how it is. I'm not going to speak for any other member here, so if they want to jump in, by all means, I'm only speaking from what I've seen over my short time on this planet involved with FChat. You can see when users log on and view certain threads too, so when someone sees you've been back to see the thread you've started, but didn't respond, the incline is to think there's something going on. Also, you didn't state you were a dealer. It seems you are (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't care either way, but many like that to be a known thing before coming in here without formalities). Maybe some comments were out there, but again, can you prove it's not a GTB with the roof cut off? That's the issue, without clear cut (no pun lol) evidence of it's beginning, or what it currently is, it could literally be ANYTHING.

Take it for what it's worth, or don't, again, just my outside perspective.

 

Hi Steve

What a Neat puzzle you have presented!

May I be so bold as to inquire the following?

While studying the car for the last 4 years next to 20 others in your collection including other prototypes, Did you contact the Manufacturer?

If so, Then to what end?

 

If it is the 308 GTS prototype, would it not be worth shipping to Maranello to gain positive confirmation and gain details of the original aspects, and thus what has changed?

Not only would you then be able to return it to original / or document the changes, but surely confirmation from Ferrari would add considerably to its value? Not that anybody on FCHat is interested in values