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FERRARI 360 ALARM SIREN REPLACEMENT

Discussion in '360/430' started by JKLIVIN, May 19, 2016.

  1. Sled Driver

    Sled Driver Formula Junior
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    May 13, 2010
    364
    Stokesdale, NC
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    Emery
    Your missing the point.........

    There is OBVIOUSLY a difference in the circuitry between the OE & GM siren. So what else is affected or not functioning correctly.

    Without a scamatic & electrical engineering degree your ALL just guessing.

    The siren is an intergal part of the security system ( controls the blinking led, right?)

    Reminds me of the ad showing a fat guy in a speedo. Just cause it fits doesn't mean it looks good.......
     
  2. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Curt
    I'm not missing the point at all actually.

    When you look at the wiring diagram (which you did of course.. and to remind you it's fig 17b) you'll see there is 4 pins into the "self powered siren". Of which 3 have an output. One goes to the negative terminal on the battery functioning as the ground, and the other two go to the rear left harness. One is + power to the siren and the other goes to the alarm unit as the ground. It's when the circuit board (yes even in the original unit) shorts to the ground. Pin 3 shorts pin 2 that you get the burnt fuse and alarm system that gets funky. Pin 3 looks like the trigger to the unit for the alarm.

    Typical Ferrari owner. Doesn't know why or how.. but tells you're incorrect and how your car SHOULD be having all these problems. ;) Unfortunately, runs perfectly.. doors lock/unlock, starts fine, runs fine, etc. etc. (If this is what RD puts with time and time again.. I completely understand)

    You were also telling me how Hill Engineering parts shouldn't be used right... ? ;)
     
  3. Drestless

    Drestless Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2014
    1,234
    Riverside, CA
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    Jam
    This part installs perfectly and car beeps when arming and disarming BUT when you trigger the alarm to siren; like open the door when it's armed it will not make any sounds. The car blinks in panic mode but it will not make any sound.

    I read a thread about this before and this Bosch part only works perfectly with Euro 360's and for US we have to use the original Ferrari part for it to work when the alarm is tripped.

    This is what I read and still continued with the install but in the end I experienced first hand as well that my US 360 won't siren with this Bosch part. Anybody has luck with this Bosch part in the US with a US 360? It beeps on arm and disarm but it never make any sound when the alarm is triggered.
     
  4. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    The battery switch is turned off for a variety of reasons. My mechanic typically turns it off while servicing the car to prevent the battery being run down while the doors or trunk are open for access. I have turned it off a couple of times in the last six months while doing electrical work. It is a prudent thing to do. BTW, to prevent losing drive cycle data or the radio presets, I always plug in a 9 volt memory saver into the cigarette lighter.

    There is nothing wrong with trying to save money on a replacement part that works as well as the original. The GM part apparently "works" as well as the OEM, except for the alarm siren. That in itself would not be a deal breaker, because I am convinced the Ferrari alarm siren's sole purpose is to embarrass the owner trying to get into the car with a parking lot full of people looking on. It's happened to me twice so far.

    When I was buying my car, the auto broker managed to set it off while testing the remotes. There was no way to shut it off. We had to listen to it until it finished its cycle, which is a long time to have the alarm blaring at you. In desperation, they even disconnected the battery, but that of course had no effect.

    I think the Ferrari alarm is the work of the devil. So having no alarm siren is a blessing and might be a reason alone to use the GM unit. However, if this unit truly goes off when the battery switch is turned off, that would be a deal breaker. I have my car serviced and would not expect the mechanic to have to put up with that racket.

    When the time comes, I may still use the GM unit, but to control the alarm siren I would modify it with the remote battery fix, but wired to the fog light switch on the switch console. That way the alarm can be silenced if it ever goes off.

    But the whole thing sounds peculiar. The alarm apparently goes off when the battery switch is turned off, but not when the battery is replaced? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe someone with the GM unit installed can actually go out and test this and set this straight.
     
    Trouts10 likes this.
  5. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    On my 360, the only possible way to reach the alarm unit would be to remove the brake fluid reservoir. Otherwise, even if I know where the unit is located, I can't get my hand in there to access it.

    The 1999 360 did not come with vapor barrier installed. I guess I can't drive mine in the rain. Oh darn...
     
  6. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    There's so much "authoritative knowledge" here it makes my ears ring with conviction. E.g. all these problems that can be caused by using the GM alarm yet none reported by all those using it. I have a 99 euro. When I replaced my battery last year the alarm siren did not sound. I expected it to.. but it did not.

    I don't even know what a distributor cap is.. but I KNOW it's not the sort of thing one wears on their head to a social function. ;)

    When you've actually worked on it you realized this is kinda silly. I've replaced my clutch through the oil breather assembly. It takes small fingers but it can be done. :)
     
  7. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    I bought an OEM alarm unit from an Fchatter and cut it open. Unfortunately, the circuit board was toast, with battery electrolyte all over it. I cleaned it up as well as I could and removed the batteries. I've got it open on the bench right now. I replaced the batteries with 9 volt and the unit chirps when connected to the the 9 volt battery. I also connected it to a 12 volt power supply, but I am unable to trigger the siren. Connecting the trigger pin to either 12 volts or ground does not do anything.

    Perhaps the unit is bad, but I suspect the alarm might be triggered by a given sequence from the alarm TCU, maybe a square wave, or a series of codes. The only way to confirm this would be install the unit in the car and scope the trigger pin. Maybe someone has done that already?
     
  8. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    Yep, guilty here. Big gonzo hands. Won't fit in oil breather tube. :)
     
  9. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    OMG! Someone who has actually THOUGHT about how it works! :)

    From a funcitonal standpoint there are two audible outputs of the siren, the chirp from the door lock/unlock and then the prolonged siren song. I suspect its a digital output with a square waveform from the alarm ecu. Short sequence = chirp. Longer and continued = alarm sound. If you look at the output via an oscilloscope, also checkout the output from the alarm module.. pin 7 IIRC but I could have that number wrong. That output goes from the alarm module to the ECU. Record it on an immobilizer bypass and the stupid keyfob press before start is no more! :)
     
  10. rugby

    rugby Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    364
    Atlanta
    I only wish it were that simple, but I think the ECU messages are encrypted with the rolling code. Jorge from ECU Doctors has been working on an immobilizer bypass since last November. Apparently, he's been successful in cracking the 456 immobilizer and believed he could quickly come up with the 360 solution. I am on the list of customers if he ever gets it figured out. He called me in February to do some functionality testing for the OEM alarm behavior, but I haven't heard from him since. I guess these 360s are pretty tough nut to crack. :)
     
  11. supratime

    supratime Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2006
    562
    (1 year) UPDATE w/ my experience with the GM alarm module

    I changed the car's 12v battery few weeks ago, switched OFF the master switch and boom... ALARM DID NOT GO OFF!! (The alarm triggered initially when I first installed the GM part last year) Maybe the computer needs time to adapt to the foreign part??? I was pleasantly surprised!! GM part is a great alternative if anyone still on the fence..very happy
     
  12. JazzyJay

    JazzyJay Formula Junior
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    Oct 26, 2005
    337
    Connecticut
    Update (if anyone is interested...).

    Installed the GM siren module on my '02 Spider. Why? First, the little red dash light stays on when I drive. Didn't know that was a sign of problem with alarm/module/relay. Assumed it was normal....until......siren module began making a slight and constant chirping noise (chirp...chirp...chirp...) when car turned off. Actually noticed chirping when I went into garage a few days after last driving car (must have started chirping at some point over about three day period). Chirping stopped with battery knob off. Car runs great otherwise, but I didn't want chirp (and battery drain...and probably upcoming related issues), so decided to attempt a fix.

    After reading similar threads on Fchat, decided to replace the module with the GM unit and give a try.

    Result: I don't know. Definitely not an invisible replacement. 1.) first time battery knob turned on after initial install, front/rear flashers turned on/off as if in hazard mode 2.) clicked the key fob and dash lights blinked normally and chirped normally 3.) OK light appeared, turned key and started normally, but flashers returned and turn signal <--> lights blinking on dash 4.) turned off ignition, hit key fob again, and started normally and no flashers. Problem solved!?

    Nope. Hit fob and tried starting again (just to be certain). Odd chirping sequence, odd dash light response. No start. Open/close door...hit fob again...normal dash sequence...car starts fine, no flashers/no chirping. Fixed? I don't know, I'll try a few more times.
     
  13. JazzyJay

    JazzyJay Formula Junior
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    Oct 26, 2005
    337
    Connecticut
    Just completed this myself with a head-to-head comparison. First, symptom was a chirping siren module (even when car off). Bought the Bosch “non-Ferrari” part as described here. Car started, no chirping when car was off, but lots of other shenanigans (see my other recent post). Just replaced with “real” Ferrari part (mfg date 2018!) and everything operating normally.

    Only question now is why is little red light sill in?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  14. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    could be a bad pin contact from the harness or maybe the battery in your "new" siren has gone bad!

    If alarm battery is good the LED will be out
     
  15. JazzyJay

    JazzyJay Formula Junior
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    Oct 26, 2005
    337
    Connecticut
    ALARM BATTERY in the main alarm box behind the seat?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  16. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    no

    The reference is to the battery w/in the siren module

    If that is bad ( or low in voltage) then the red LED stays on
     
  17. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    It is possible that when you inserted the wiring harness into the rear of the alarm that one pin may not be making making contact or became bent.

    They are not very strong pins

    A pain but maybe try removing the siren again, remove the harness, check pins, reinsert the harness.

    However, don't fully install and check to see if dash LED is out
     
  18. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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  19. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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    Oct 28, 2015
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    MD

    I was wondering if anyone could post a picture of the moisture barrier? I am pretty sure my car does not have one! I removed the panels to clean and did not see anything that I thought was a moisture barrier similar to what is behind a door panel.
     
  20. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2012
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    I replaced my siren with the GM unit and because it really is not equivalent, I went and purchased a Ferrari part from Eurospares. Substantially less money than buying from the local Ferrari dealer. Yes. There is a difference and it is not worth saving a few bucks as you compromise the entire function using the GM part. Especially the bit about disconnecting the battery and having the siren wail. Not a good thing.

    The vapor barrier is soft white foam material that is vacuum formed to shape. It has adhesive around the edges to stick it down around the perimeter to the frame of the opening. Here is photo from Aldous Voice website. By the way, you have to remove the panels from the front trunk to expose the vapor barrier.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    I find it futile to try to peel back the barrier from the frame as the adhesive adheres so aggressively that all you are going to do is destroy the barrier. The easiest way to access things behind the barrier is to cut a nice clean line using an utility knife to allow you to peel the vapor barrier away. When you are ready to put it back, use some metalized adhesive tape and seal the opening. I used aluminum foil tape that you can get at Home Depot that is typically used to seal HVAC ducts.

    If your car is missing the vapor barrier, you can probably substitute heavy plastic sheeting ... I would use something like 4 mil thick plastic sheeting or a piece of Tyvek vapor barrier used in home construction. Cut it to size and then use the aluminum foil tape to stick it down around the perimeter. If you're a purist and really think you need the original vapor barrier ... I believe it is over $200 from Ricambi. A bit pricey for a piece of plastic foam. I think the part number is 6212900 and it is called "water protection cloth".
     
  21. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dude I paid 20 bucks on ebay for the GM siren in my car. Eurospares has it for $328.70. How exactly is it not worth it? Mine chirps exactly like the OEM part and got rid of the red light for the last 9 years...
     
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  22. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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    Perhaps yours did not exhibit the same characteristics as the the GM siren that I got. The GM siren I purchased would wail if you disconnected the battery. The Ferrari version does not. So you can change the battery without having the siren wailing. One other function that is different is when you arm the car and then open a door without disarming the system ... the Ferrari version will wail and flash the lights. The GM version will only flash the lights.

    Other than those two differences, yes ... the GM version functions same. It will get rid of the red light and it should last for a good amount of time.

    I purchased mine from Eurospares for about what you stated above. The original siren in my car lasted 14 years. Hopefully, this new one will give good service. I think it is worth it to have correct functionality.

    Steve
     
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  23. JazzyJay

    JazzyJay Formula Junior
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    Oct 26, 2005
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    Connecticut
    Hmmmm.....

    So my new siren module, manufactured in 2018, has a battery that is too low voltage? Not sure I agree, because the little red light also stayed on with the new GM siren module.

    I doubt both new modules were low voltage.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  24. derekmines

    derekmines Karting

    Dec 12, 2013
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    Melksham, UK
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    Derek
    I too have tried the GM route, unfortunately I ended up with the same noises as described by others and an only partially functional system.... I then decided to open up the Ferrari siren and replace the batteries.... this has partially worked as although I don't have the errant noises described above, neither do I have any kind of siren, beeps on locking or unlocking and my dash light is still on solid red. I fear a connection issue with the pins rather than anything else as the batteries were brand new and the old ones had only very slightly leaked.

    I have recently seen details of how to code the EEprom from the OE Ferrari siren onto the EEprom of a GM unit which allegedly solves the errant noise problem.
    If I cannot make what I have now work then that will be my next attempt at a solution.
     
  25. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    If the LED is staying on the circuit is not closing due to a lack of voltage.

    It might be hard to believe but in many cases these items are made long before they are out for distribution.
     

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