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Ferrari 512S Chassis 1012 - Where did it go?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by cavallorampante, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    The other day I was thumbing through some of my old Prancing Horse magazines. In particular, I looked at issue 59/60 which had a comprehensive list of the 512 chassis and their dispositions at that time... I absolutely love the 512S and have many opportunities to examine these cars on and off the track. I specifically remember the Monterey Historics of 1994 when a SLEW of 512s were at Laguna Seca. If I remember correctly, Heuberger had the Sunoco Car, Giordano had 1004, I cant remember who brought the Sandeman 512M, and the 512F 1048 (the 512M with the Porsche 917 windscreen)

    Manfred Lampe wrote this excellent and descriptive article and included extensive photography and factory racing history (thanks Manfred!) and mentioned that 1012 was DNF at Nurburgring (ADAC 1000) and in 1970 was undergoing restoration. Lampe owned the car for quite a few years after the restoration (according to Barchetta.cc) and then it passed hands..

    I did a little digging to see if I could figure out where this long lost beauty wound up, and the last I read - it was owned by a fellow in California who campaigned as late as 2014; But now it has seemingly vanished.

    Does anyone know where it wound up? Is it still in the US?
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  2. cavallorampante

    Feb 5, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    Jack Crawford
    UPDATE: I forgot to mention that the DNF of 1012 at ADAC 1000 1970 was due to a crash in practice that severely damaged the suspension and tube frame of the vehicle. That information I got on Barchetta.cc. Its hard to find clear information on 1012 and it seems that this is the most "illusive" of the 512S.
     
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  3. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio

    Ahhhhhh... the saga continues.... let me help clear the air as there has been some "shysterish" maneuvering happening regarding #1004.
    As you shared above, #1004 was in Monterey in 1994 w John Giordano. That is true. Giordano has owned #1004 since 1986 (fact). Giordano has owned, operated, maintained, raced, and shown this car extensively throughout the USA and Canada since that time.
    Manfred Lampe was the owner of the remnants of #1012.
    #1012 was destroyed and "written off" by Ferrari in 1970 after crashing in Nuburgring.
    Manfred Lampe wrote the article you sited above, and even sent all of his information to Franco Gozzi to validate.
    At the time, Gozzi validated that Giordano in fact owned #1004 and #1012 was a "mystery" of sorts as it was destroyed.
    Manfred Lampe took #1012 to have rebuilt/re-fabricated/resurrected, and after an agreement could not be reached between himself and John Hajduk, he took the car to Bob Houghton to have all of the parts and pieces recreated to put this destroyed chassis back together.
    When Manfred reached out to Ferrari to have his car Classiche certified, he was unable to as #1012 was destroyed... therefore Manfred re-stamped #1012 to #1004 and had it Ferrari classiche certified under that number. He conveniently changed the history to accommodate his need.
    Interesting isnt it?????
    Manfred has written in these blogs that he was "mistaken" about #1004 (now diminishing Giordano's ownership- who still owns the authentic #1004) - and going against Franco Gozzi's clarification.
    So.... where is #1012? #1012 was Ferrari Classiche Certified as #1004 in 2011 and has changed hands several times since then. (shocking)
    Once Ferrari Classiche certified, Lampe sold #1012 (now #1004) to Read
    Read then sold it to another person (name escapes me at the moment)
    That person then commissioned Girardo to sell the car
    and now it has a new owner supposedly in Switzerland.
    A lot of owners in a short period of time.
    Hope this clarifies things a bit more.
     
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  4. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio

    "illusive" is the PERFECT word regarding what happened to that car...... ;)
     
  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,636
    southwest germany
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    romano schwabel
    so you all see what it is worth the ferrari classiche certification
     
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  6. christc

    christc Karting

    Mar 3, 2013
    167
    Germany
    Classiche in my mind is just a money printing opportunity for Ferrari
     
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  7. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,158
    1012 was never sold by the factory. It was destroyed at the Nürburgring 1970. Hence any car appearing afterwards could not be 1012.
    1012 doesn' exist anymore. Period.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  8. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio
    It is my understanding, Manfred Lampe has always (in the past) acknowledged that he owned #1012. He also had this confirmed by Franco Gozzi in the early 1980’s.
    I also know there are pictures that show a stamped #1012 chassis.
    So if the #1012 car never left the factory, how could this be?
     
  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,158
    Mr. Giordano:
    That photo shows a faked ID tag (meaning somebody recreated this tag). I took this photo 19 October 2008 in Spain.

    Marcel Massini

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  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,158
    Photo taken by Rainer Schlegelmilch (REVS Institute).

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,158
    I understand that Giordano acquired his lovely 512 S on the 31st January 1987. It came from Dallas Motorsports (Don Walker).

    Marcel Massini
     
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  12. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio
    That is correct.
    The notarized bill of sale from Don Walker (Dallas Motorsport) states that #1004 was sold to John P Giordano on 01/31/1987.
    He has been the consistent owner of #1004 since that time.
     
  13. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio
  14. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio
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  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    Apr 6, 2008
    5,636
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    romano schwabel
    and who pays will get what he want
     
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  16. christc

    christc Karting

    Mar 3, 2013
    167
    Germany
    And to demand exchanging a period but not numbers matching engine against a newly produced and stamped one from Ferrari to get certification is absolut nonsense for me. This clearly shows that authenticity is not at the core of the process but money making.
     
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  17. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio

    And please refer to what I posted in response to Mr. Massini's picture regarding the gear box selector.
    It doesnt make sense and is very suspect for a gear box selector in any 512 car to have 4 numbers stamped on it.
     
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  18. pgrootswagers

    pgrootswagers Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    458
    Waalwijk (NL)
    Full Name:
    Peter Grootswagers
    Pictures Dallas Motorsport december 1986.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
    51
    Laguna Beach, California
    Full Name:
    Peter Giorgio

    The car you are sharing is the #1032 car formerly owned by Marc Caveng.
    This car is currently owned by MB Formula One engineer, Adrian Newey.
     

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