Ferrari Classiche official launch

The factory drives another nail in the coffin of the DIY Ferrari restorer/enthusiast by widening the gap between the rare, worth-a-fortune cars and the equally or perhaps more authentic 2+2 for which it isn't worth paying a fortune to get Factory Authentication or a factory restoration. We might as well start parting out our 2+2s, since this money-making factory action will have the effect of devaluing most of them. Even if a vintage car is factory original, if it doesn't have a C of A, it will be worth less than one that does. A perfect car lovingly restored by an enthusiast will be worth less than one restored by the factory. I challenge anyone to demonstrate that Ferrari even knows what "original" is, when it comes to vintage cars. These cars were all unique and built with whatever parts were at hand, or even the parts from a similar car farther back on the assembly line. I think I would rather have a Certificate of Authenticity from Zac Dugger, endorsed by Tom Shaughnessy, and a Vehicle History from Marcel Massini than whatever wild-ass-guess information the factory can provide from their hit-and-miss document files.
I suspect that Ferrari has decided to try to make some money off the vintage car enthusiasts and that cancelling the build sheets was the first step. My build sheet contains no confidential information about any of the previous owners, not even the name of the person to whom it was sold. Marcel Massini got that for me from public records.
As is probably apparent, I'm not too "en amour" with this new factory decision, particularly the implication that "only the factory can make it Factory Original".
I hope I'm not overreacting, but I find it frustrating to try to restore a car that is worth much more parted-out than perfectly built. I wish the factory would help rather than hinder.
Other reactions?????
Tom Kizer

 

Interesting comment in that article. "We are not in the business to make an American style over-restoration to win cups".....Should I bury these items in my garden untill I am ready to re-install them????
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In the Grand Scheme of things, especially related to sales value, it won't mean a thing. "Restoration" will always be a relative thing, as different judging entities have different standards. A beautiful 365GT recently won a big trophy at the FCA-judged concours at Rodeo Drive and it has been (flawlessly) repainted in a modern Lexus blue!

Bottom line is that 2+2 cars get rarer and rarer every year. Less and less will change hands. Supply and demand is a simple equation. People have always been able to send cars to the factory for restoration, just as there is certainly a pecking order in the U.S. of restoration shops. This "new" move of the factory's will change nothing in the marketplace, imo, except possibly make a car restored there a bit more expensive than a car not (which has always been the case).

The worst thing that all this will have on the less expensive, more "drivable" 12-cylinder cars? We'll stop DRIVING them!

 

Tom
You are NOT overreacting. For the factory it's a new business. It's about $$$, of course.
The new certification process does NOT contain any history of the car, once it has left the factory gate in Maranello. Ownership and/or race history is not part of the certification process.

I assume that in the near future a number of legal problems will happen:
1) Website Classicdriver mentioned a yellow 275 GTB without engine and said that the factory will build an entire new engine so that the car can be certified/authenticated. Now: What happens if later that car is being sold and thereafter the original and first genuine engine of the car re-appears again/is found again? Things like this will happen sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.
2) The Certificate of Authenticity can only be a snapshot. The next morning the authenticated engine may be removed from the car and another one installed and then the car can be sold. Good luck to the buyer..........do your home work! Due diligence......

Marcel Massini

 

A couple of amusing things in the article

1) a sheik's having two 400's factory restored.........so Matt's 308 idea wasn't too far off the mark!
2) on the wall's a pic of the 1-2-3 Daytona finish with 0846....could this be the second step in Jim's car being recognised as the restored / rebuilt 0846
3) the 275 was being rebuilt with "improvements"

All this just shows Ferrari are just doing it for the cash rather than to help safe guard their heritage and the recognition of what is or isnt correct.

whilst I think some US show cars are over-restored I'd rather have a car which is original rather than a certified car that's been "improved" by factory staff with little or no experince of these cars when originaly built.......besides if their being rebuilt to the same factory standards as they were in the 60's & 70's they'll start rusting on the drive home

 

Old Ferraris are special and it certainly seems odd that the company is going into the business of reproducing engines other parts. Imagine how little it would cost them to build a run of SWB?

Which brings up another though, which is that I really think that someone could make a business and have a lot of fun building a line of modern cars along the lines of the 50s and 60s Ferraris.

Not copies, of course, but nice to drive, with modern v12s of around 2-3.5 liters, various configurations. Beautiful, fun, great sounding. Aim for 10-50 cars a year in the 60-200k range. No one will buy them as Ferraris, and few would want them at all. Maybe 50 per year, though.

 

The yellow GTB engine is being replaced with a new correct engine. The engine " WILL NOT HAVE THE SERIAL NUMBER STAMPED ON IT" The factory is aware of the original engine showing up later. They have stamped an interno number and a special "Classic Stamp" on the block. The car will be certified with notes as to the addition of the new engine.

The good part of factory restorations might be getting back to what "real is" at a concour rather than the battle of the check books

 

NO! Send them to Classiche and have Ferrari build a car around them!

 

Matching numbers is of course very important, but I sold my 4cam lately and because it was nonmatching, many people got scared, until I got somebody for a testdrive.
Testing the perfect driving car through the hills of south of France, and the car was sold.
So are we buying Ferrari´s to drive them or talk about owing one, that makes the difference.

And I drive my cars.

 

Errrrmmm according to that article it will have a serial number in sequence with the the 275's produced in period


Simple theoretical question for everybody, if a manufacturer re-builds a car or makes an engine of an older type, will it have to conform with current legislation?............I know this is what kills the idea of reproducing some classic cars (it's after all what finaly stoped the production of the AC Cobra after 40 years)

 

Wow Tom!!!!!!!

what an enormous compliment to have my name even mentioned in the same sentence as those two gentalmen. I have spent a lot of time researching the 365 2+2 out of my own love for the car. I just can't understand why others haven't spent the time and energy on the other models, so that there was some concise information out there for everyone to have access to. There is no reason that someone who's last name ends with an I and wears a red jumpsuit is going to know more than the next guy.

The factory restorations will have an impact on the community wether it's good or bad we'll will just have to wait and see. From my short and limited experience the minute one tries to run the restorations as a big bussiness money making monster things slip through the cracks and unless Ferrari is carefull I fear the same will happen to them. Who's to say this system will be any more honest than what is out there already, just an angle for a well documented name brand to influence an incredibly wealthy segment of their customer base. Don't get me wrong I think they will play a big role in the near future and may solve some long standing riddles that the cummunity has yet to solve, my only hope is that the Ferrari world is bettered not lessoned. I would love to be there when the 0202A project gets to them(if it does) and just absorb the knowledge and hopefully that is how things will work but we shall see.

Pen I work on that car and yes the color maybe a modern twist on the classic TDF Blue or Pozzi Blue that is the color the car was painted when the current owner purchased it and everyone loves it. I have spent a lot of time correcting all the little items on that car and it is now cosidered one of the better ones out there even if the color is not 100% accurate

Zac

 

They could just sell tool kits and clock hang tags and have a viable business!

 

Mr. P
Of course, I am aware of this. Here's a photo showing a reproduction engine block done a few months ago by the factory classic dept for 250 GT SWB Berlinetta #2563 GT. Note stampings. The original engine is long gone.
Marcel Massini
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If they do this right, it could be pretty cool! I think Aston has had a similar program for years. Has anyone heard any positive or negative comments on it?

Marcel, i like that picture. How much does a newly manufactured 250 or 330 sell for?

Regards,

Art S.

 

I sort of figured when I heard about the factory launching Ferrari Classiche, that it would be mostly patronized by owners of the racecars from the 1950s and 60s, who would seem to benefit most from an official blessing of the car's authenticity from Maranello. I was really surprised (and not overjoyed either) when looking at the article linked above to see a 250 Series II cabriolet just like mine sitting right in the middle of the shop, getting the full restoration treatment.

The thing that amused me the most was this quote:

“We will carry out the work to the standards of the time using totally correct parts from the original manufacturing processes.” So in effect owners will receive their cars back in genuinely ‘original’ condition.

I wonder if that means they'll be bringing in the kids just out of trade school to do the panel welds in the engine bay, so that they'll look period-correct horrible? Even the top-of-the-line road cars that left the factory in the 1950s and 60s were pretty crudely made by the standards of the time. The racecars were cruder still. So will that be the standard for "totally correct" and "genuinely original" as defined by Ferrari Classiche? I sort of doubt that current buyers of high-dollar-value cars would hold still for that.

Kare can recount some pretty amusing stories about his GTE being "restored" by the factory following an engine bay fire only a few years after it was originally built. This is a new day and a different deal - I get that. But getting a roomful of Modenese to agree on anything beyond the first bottle of Lambrusco without bloodshed is really doing something. A Ferrari Classiche customer ought to get a webcam feed for his money. Now that would be interesting.

 

Art, Aston's service and resto centre has been going for a long long time, the workmanship is of the best quality for a very simple reason, the guys doing the service/restoration work are the same time served craftsmen who built the cars originaly........as Ferrari haven't really done this sort of thing for many years and their production techniques are far more mechanised & arent as labour intesive as Astonsm I'd guess they won't have the retained knowledge A-M in Newport Pagnall do........but then again Rolls havent had any trouble and they're effectivley a new company

 

I'm pretty sure building an engine of an older type wouldn't be a problem at all, as long as the car has a valid VIN and id plate from an older year.

An entire car, though, would be a different deal. It would need to have a VIN number and ID tag from the 60s, or some approximation.

That's why Shelby had to claim that the Cobras he was building (or "completing") were using old chassis from the 60s, that he happened to discover in his barn. Talk about a barn find ;-)

 

Hi Marcel i beg to differ, having spent many years restoring cars, i think Its great for the factory to be able to offer this service, Even if that engine is found at somestage, the new engine is being made by Ferrari, think of its as buying a new 599 and asking for a spare engine, or ceramic brakes. I would rather Ferrari rebuild a long lost classic to factory specs then some replica kit car being driven around with all the badges. Just my thoughts
Andrew

 

any certificate should include an authorized copy of the build sheets. then a detailed list of replaced parts[who made them,where they came from] and a detailed account of each restoration or repair procedure by the shop who did the work. in addition a valuation done by a recognised independent expert should be done. this package of documents can the accompany the car where ever it goes. any prospective buyer con refer to these doccuments and verify there authenticity as he/she sees fit. they will also assist judges and anyone putting a value on the car. lets not rely on the factory to be the final word. there work should be evaluated just the same as anyone else. hopefully a pattern will come about which will establish some order to the chaos. this could be a good project for the various national ferrari clubs to work on. lets hear your ideas. maybe we can get something started here tongascrew george

 

We all know that a "time capsule" car built in the 50s-60s would only be a 90 point car today,
cars are over restored , which is what the owners demand,

Paint jobs then were just paint jobs , now they can be called "art" and carry the price for being art,

Plus European restorations seem more to be conserned about mechanical things and that the car could be driven another 100,000 KM,

American restorations seem more concerned with presentation , paint jobs , interiors perfect (every stich) and chrome work that is twice as good as the original "industrial" chrome that they started with.


Personally I am more interested in the race car look than the concours look ,
but the owners can pick whatever they want to pay for.....

Dave

 

Still can't understand how Shelby was able to claim he was building AC Cobras as "continuation" cars when the original manufacturer was still building them in England, Shelby whilst obviously pivotal in the Cobras story didnt build them in period, merely arranged for Ford to supply AC Cars with motors and sold AC's cars in the US, if the Chassis of a car is the source of it's identity then Shelby has little or no claim on the Cobra's production as all the chassis's and bodies were made by AC (laterly with design help from Ford) here in England as AC had done with the Ace for almost ten years prior to Shelby turning up on their doorstep

 

Named shops certified for work on older classics of the Prancing Horse

Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/classic-cars/ferrari-names-48-workshops-classiche-authorized-did-yours-make-list#ixzz4yOX6jgOw

http://auto.ferrari.com/it_IT/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2017/11/170029_CS_Ferrari_Classiche_lista-officine.pdf

 

So 9 Classiche Officina in the UK.