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Ferrari Now vs Then... have they forgotten the enthusiast???

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by s2mikey, Nov 13, 2003.

  1. s2mikey

    s2mikey Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    169
    Upstate, New York
    Full Name:
    Mike B
    I'm noticing a trend as of late and was wondering if anyone else had the same impressions: Ferrari has all but eliminated the real car enthusiast from their list of buyers with these questionable, quarter-million dollar museum pieces. What's the deal???

    Where is an offering like the 308 or Mondial? Yes, I'm well aware that in their heyday, they were more expensive than most cars. However, they were attainable by a helluva a lot more people when compared to now. What I dislike is the collector / museum / "hey look at me" mentality that the cars seem to be catering to.

    I always thought that the proper place for a Ferrari is the road..preferably a backroad with some twisties. Now, I bet that most of the newer models sit parked under hermedically sealed plastic on fine carpets. Great. That's a good use of a great driving car. Yeah, yeah... I know, some follks around here drive their cars a lot. Good for you.

    It just appears that the stratospheric pricing along with the limited production have taken the cars out of the hands of REAL sports car enthusiasts and have landed in the hands of the Justin Timberlake's of the world. That's too bad. Most of these people will drive it up and down the street a few times, crack a smile, then promptly park it in favor of the Escalade with 75 inch wheels and 800 inch subwoofers.

    Hey, Ferrari's SHOULD be expensive. Otherwise, they become too Chevrolet-ish. But... even the new 612 2+2... what's the deal with $250,000??? I just think it's a shame that not very many REAL drivers will end up having any of these cars. They will ROT internally in some gangsta rapper's garage for the rest of it's life. Enzo would PUKE if he saw this!

    Bring back the 308 - It's 1 million times better looking than the newer cars anyways! :)

    MB
     
  2. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
     
  3. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    I agree that Maserati really has the potential to put what is ostensibly a Ferrari into more people's hands.

    With regard to your comment, "However, they were attainable by a helluva a lot more people when compared to now. What I dislike is the collector / museum / "hey look at me" mentality that the cars seem to be catering to." I mean, this is just wrong. The "entry level" 360 is the best selling Ferrari of all time, just on pure numbers.

    I am a little ticked off every time I see a David Beckham or Dr. Dre or someone similar in a 360 because you know they don't love these cars like we do. But, really, what can you do? From day one, Ferrari has been about racing, and the more money they make from road cars,the better they can pursue more championship seasons.
     
  4. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
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    Franklin E. Parker
    I havn't done the math, but I suspect the cost of a new Ferrari in 2003 is less of the percentage of the average buyer's income than it was of the average buyer when the 308 was new. Any economist out there with the exact comparison ?
     
  5. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith Formula 3

    Apr 20, 2002
    1,446
    I don't think they've forgotten drivers. Has anyone seen the Stradale?? Of course they cost a fortune. It's an exotic car. That means it WON'T be attainable by just anybody. If everybody that wanted one could get one, it wouldn't be special. Unfortunately in just about any product category where the top rung products are made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts....sometimes the people that end up with some of them want the product strictly for show. I use to sell exotic audio equipment. Sometimes people would come in and plunk down top $$$$ for some of our best equipment just because it was "the best" or "the most desireable" or even "looked cool". Sad but true. But, thanks to depreciation, these products will get to the point where they are more "available" to the average person.
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,618
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    Carbon McCoy
    i disagree; it's the gangsta rappers who are out there driving them...
     
  7. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Mike,
    I wonder how many people back in 1977 said,
    ....I'm noticing a trend as of late and was wondering if anyone else had the same impressions: Ferrari has all but eliminated the real car enthusiast from their list of buyers with these questionable, multi-thousand dollar museum pieces. What's the deal???....

    ....Where is an offering like the 308 or Mondial?...
    Its now called the 360 and the 456.
    Ferrari still has a 12 cyl line and an 8 cyl line they produce just like back then.

    The 308 offering you mention back in 1977 cost 30k,
    I guess you had to be one of the Alice Coopers of the world back then to own one.
     
  8. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
    2,518
    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    last time i was realistically pricing the Fcar market was in late 1988/early 1989, and
    depending upon what your cost of living criteria are(which can vary a lot), i think it's
    fairly close to the same ratios of $$/car.

    cost of the 8 & 12 cyl cars(328/TR, 360/550) is somewheres around double what it was
    between now and then.

    salaries(for me, at least) are somewhere around double or better.

    Of course, you also have to consider taxes, as double the income doesn't mean double
    the take-home pay in the U.S. system, but all things kinda considered, comes out
    about even.

    As far as enthusiasts are considered, when you consider Ferrari has had production of
    3000-4000 cars for quite some time, but the world population and wealth creation has
    increased a lot in the last 15 yrs or so, it's probably no surprise that pricing has increased.

    Bigger issue down the road i think is that high end cars are topping out in their usefull capacities,
    so then what? Camry cars that'll go 160mph? Don't laugh, most of the technology in Fcars
    could be easily mass produced by someone like Toyota for a lot less
    than what Ferrari charges. Only a matter of time...only a matter of time.
     
  9. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    34,891
    Victory Circle
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    HUBBSTER
    I agree the 308 was better looking than the 360, a lot better looking. The 308 was priced near the same as the Porsche Turbo back in its day. Now the 360 is around the same $ as a Porsche Turbo so that hasnt changed much. Ferrari bought Maserati to replace the old Dino nameplate for lower $ enthusiasts. The new Masers have nothing that interest me though, mostly chick cars or cars for old guys
     
  10. Attitude928

    Attitude928 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    934
    NYC
    1960 - US Median income = $5,600 ($34,832 when inflation adjusted to 2003 dollars)

    2000 - NJ State Av income = $67,957

    1960 - List price for Ferrari 250 GT coupe = $12,600
    12,600/5,600=225% of median income

    2000 - List price for '99 360 Modena = $152,250
    152,250/67,957=224% of median income

    We make more now. We have sports cars that perform better. Their relative price has remained the same over time. Sounds alright to me.
     
  11. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
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    Gary B.
    This whole routine of what car looks better than another has got to be one of the biggest waste of times. Like politics and religion, you're not going to change anyone's mind. But the 308 better looking than the 360? Not in a million years. When the 308 was new I was debating between it and a Turbo Carrera, they were about the same price, and I went with the Porsche, mostly for the performance, but even then the looks of the 308 didn't blow me away. The 360 does, and I chose it over a GT3. Just another guy's opinion.
     
  12. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 6, 2003
    21,446
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    Although I love the 360 too, I'm very fond of the 308/328 body, especially the 288 style.

    I think that a "modern interpretation" (ala Ford GT) of that car, would be a wild seller. The 488 GTO!

    I've daydreamed about taking some auto design courses for fun and trying to pen one myself (I was a graphic designer through HS/college), then try and get it coachbuilt on a Modena chassis (and probably use the 360 interior) and sell them for $$$...

    We need to unite to start the revolutionary demand for Ferrari to build these cars for us!
     
  13. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
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    David Jones
    Gee Gary, you could afford a new 308 or Turbo Carrera back in the 70's...
    You must be old.
     
  14. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
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    Gary B.
    You're quite right :) I had the big 6-0 last July.
     
  15. donaldh2o

    donaldh2o Karting

    Nov 10, 2003
    143
    Irvine CA
    Full Name:
    Don
    One thing I've noticed is many those with the new Ferraris don't seem to know how to drive a Ferrari. Here's how I drive my 308 even if its only to the grocery store:

    Clutch in - shift to 1st - ease on the gas/ease out the clutch - get the thing rolling then floor the gas to red line.

    Let off the gas - push in the clutch - shift to 2nd - let out the clutch
    floor the gas pedal to red line.

    Let off the gas - push in the clutch - shift to 3rd - let out the clutch
    floor the gas pedal to red line.

    Let off the gas - push in the clutch - shift to 4th - let out the clutch
    floor the gas pedal to red line.

    Let off the gas - push in the clutch - shift to 5th - let out the clutch
    floor the gas pedal to red line.

    If they only knew what they're missing.
     
  16. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    Let off the gas - push in the clutch - shift to 5th - let out the clutch
    floor the gas pedal to red line.

    If they only knew what they're missing.[/QUOTE]


    One can only hope your home is right by the on ramp of a highway!

    My trips to the grocery store tend to be all in 2nd and 3rd gears, at best!
     
  17. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
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    Steven
    Donald,

    Funny, i JUST was doing that on my way to (and from) my favorite butcher for steaks. On the way home there is a car repair place and they seem to ALWAYS wait outside to hear me pass by on the way home as i rip through the gears. Today there was four guys waving at me with a few giving the thumbs up :)

    And yes, i go through ALL the gears :)

    Vita bella!

    Enjoy the Drive,

    Steven R. Rochlin
     
  18. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    Why can't rich guys like cars. Most of them that I know do (like cars). There is nothing wrong with having a few dollars. I like the idea that not everyone can own a Ferrari. Let them drive corvettes.

    Art
     
  19. superbimmer

    superbimmer Karting

    Jan 12, 2003
    241
    So.Orange County CA
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Attitude928 has it right ... I bought a brand new BMW 2002 in 1971, that cost me $3250 (tax and license) At that time, THAT was considered alot of money for a "regular" car. At the same time, the BMW 3.0CSi coupe ... a very special elite car ... cost over $12000. AND a 365GT2+2 Ferrari (top of the line in 1971) cost $20,000.

    By the way, at the time I had a fairly average paying job ... my young bride and I were paying $160 a month for a fairly ordinary, 2 bedroom, apartment! I earned $8000 a year. (The payment on the BMW 2002 was $103 per month)

    The Ferrari would have cost me 2 1/2 yrs salary ... I didn't own one ... I just looked!!

    But I DID drive a BMW! (I'm a true enthusiast)
     
  20. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,214
    Colorado
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    Dave
    Getting back to S2Mickey's original thoughts.

    The relative prices may be fairly constant over time, but Ferrari is making a lot more cars and I think recent designs have been made with the Country club set in mind as much as enthusiasts. That's why Montezomolo made such a big deal about there being room for golf clubs in a 360. Anyone think Enzo would have cared? But the strategy is working, the 360 being Ferrari's hottest product ever.

    Dave
     
  21. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
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    Allan
    The true test of beauty between the 308 and 328 will come in 20 years. A 20 year old 308/328 is still considered beautiful, while i doubt the 360 will age as well.
     
  22. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
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    Gary B.
    Well, they're ALL gonna age better than the origami Lambos.
     
  23. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    42,348
    SFPD
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    Dirty Harry

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