Ferrari theme Town Homes - gauging interest

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by spirot, Dec 29, 2005.

  1. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    I ve been kicking around a development scenario regarding developing townhomes with a connection to a major road racing track... I'm now at the stage to gauge interest, and demand.

    if the Town Home was 2750 sqft, with a large well lit 2 car drive thru garage, with its own access to a road circuit that you would have exclusive use of on a set number of days per hour included in monthly dues... 3br, 2.5 bath, private gated entrace for around $375,000 what would the interest be?

    avg Monthly HOA dues - 375 - 500, depending on track time.
    additional track time to start at $45 Hr.

    Architecturals are and renderings are nearing completion. Project financing is secure. gauge of demand is next.

    let me know what you would think... the location would be in the Southeast within the Metro Atlatna area.

    I can not give more specifics at the moment. should you be interested please send me a private message.
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  3. Erich

    Erich Formula 3

    Sep 9, 2003
    Poway CA
    Full Name:
    Erich Coiner
    How close to the track are the homes?
    What kind of limitations on hours of operation?

    I love to hear the sound of race machines on a track. But I also cherish quiet afternoons in my backyard. How does that balance work in your development?

    This sounds like some of the airparks where you can taxi your plane right up to your house.
  4. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    The concept is the same as fly in communites... so you would have to be ok with engine noise from the track, as it will be hosting its usual events.

    The homes are designed with a sound deadner/ insulator that you would not normally use in a regual townhome... we have 2 designs gable roof, and flat roof ... gable designs have a "lofty" feel to the bedrooms, and flat roof are for partying... we are trying to see if we can keep the weight of a hot tub on the roof.... the "block" of town homes would be gable, flat, gable flat approx 10 in each block.

    Each garage will come with standard electric lift, air supply, and well lit with halogen lighting. Decorative street door, with metal roll down door for "Pit Lane. a deck is above the Pit Lane door, that has rain protection, power, and air supply hook up... a bit like a F-1 umbilical... water is on the side. grage height will be std 15 ft... so most cars will be able to be lifted over head.

    access to the track will be by magnetic swipe card, and all track time will be monitored by on site safety concierge... that's why the high HOA fees.

    the homes are well built, average finish homes, with custom upgrades to be offerd. ( granite, hardwoods etc.... ) kitchen finishes are stainless appliances, with laminate surfaces. flooring is carpet with tile in kitchen and baths ( 16/12 large format tile.) Exterior is Vinal siding with faux accents.

    we feel this will be a 2nd home for most buyers, and a refuge for the spouse of the "Car guy"... or for a team who wants to have a place to test during the winter, and a place for crew to live.

    Short term rentals will not be alowed access to the racing track. min rental period is 6 months.

    Corporate owners are welcome.
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    Oh yes ... the Town Homes will have one side facing the track, with the front of the home sheilded by a "hedge row" ... so from the front you would not immediately know that you are only 150ft away from a racing track.

    seperate gated entrance to the subdivision. auto and foot access to viewing areas of the race track are still being worked on.

    the deck area would have a full view of "Pit Lane" and the racing track proper.
  6. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
    Marietta, GA
    Full Name:
    ....yeah...I'd buy that. That sounds awesome. Who cares what the wife thinks?!
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  8. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    Orange County, CA
    Sounds like a good idea but an even better idea for a co-ownership situation. That way if you lived out of the area you could still make use of it and have your car trucked over there. I'd think that it might work better if there was a private road that takes you to and from the track.(say about a mile away) Sorta like Fiorano. The thought of being right there may turn some people off. Keep us posted.
  9. Dan Ciezniewzky

    Dan Ciezniewzky Formula 3

    Sep 6, 2004
    i love it, but if you're targeting married people its going to be a tuff sell, especially with kids.
    I dont know how the prices in Atlanta are but most likely you'd be after younger single guys or people who want to spend the weekend there. For the younger guys it might be too much, so if you can get some die hard single drivers or some rich guys that love to track their cars its a great least to me it is :)

    Im guessing the sound thing would be a concern, even with special sound deadening. I like the 1 mile road or so idea, but if you can block out all the noise it wouldnt bother me at all.
  10. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    It is a great idea. Especially since the owners can work on their own cars in the neighborhood and since all of the owners would be car people they would not complain about noise or the like. I think you have a winner. Anyone who really enjoys cars would buy.
  11. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    my two pennies, fwiw:

    i LOVE the concept. my wife would NOT love the concept. i think the sound control in the townhomes will be critical. also consider whether the association will have other amenities for the boss and kiddies (eg: a pool, a central rec room in a community center, etc.) who aren't on the track.

    it seems to me that either you're stuck building either a nice condo setup that the wife and kids would enjoy hanging in / around OR you build fairly utilitarian crash/shower space for the hardcore guys / teams. the hardcore folks won't clamor for 2700sf of space, imo.

    why build the townhomes so close to the track? why not put some distance (still walkable) between them, maybe with a high wall and berm to do some sound management and keep the condos somewhat toned down a bit? just a thought.

    you could also build combo garages / livign quarters right on the track that include a sleeping area and a bath with a shower in loft space within the garage - the hardcores would just crash there - you can build a lot more of those, presumably.

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  13. F SPIDER

    F SPIDER F1 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2002
    NYC, A'dam, W'stock
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    rijk rietveld
    I guess that when you live in a sub-division you will have the noise of the mowers and leafblowers anyway, so a racetrack might not be so different if you restrict the sound output (no tubis?) and racing times (quiet evenings).

    I personally could not handle the noise while sitting in my garden, but then during the week I live in NYC (noise galore, and no problem there) and in the weekends in the "rural" Catskills Mountains, where we never hear our neighbours (too far away).

    You might consider making a multi-level (compact) indoor racetrack, like there are some indoor kart tracks in europe. If not indoors, I would imagine that you can build a sound screen in the 3/4 closed shape of a bobsled track section.
  14. pchop

    pchop Formula 3
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    Jun 12, 2002
    Usually NY often elsewhere.
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    There are three car club country club (not exactly the same as this) that exits in the US. Do an archive search on Autoweek and Road and Track, I read it about a month ago.

    I think this is a great idea...but the only draw back is insurance and noise regulations.

    But as they say, if you build it, they will come :)

    Keep me posted.
  15. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    At that price throw in some on staff mechanics and a large shop garage area for working on cars or storage for members and you've gotta deal!

    I'd just move there and get a set of those noise cancelling Bose headphones for the days I want quiet.

    Of course there would be the additional expense of the divorce settlement.

    Might I suggest the Watkins Glen area. It's beautiful and quiet with "some" stuff to do. Winter probably sucks though. Still, it's got to be cheap up there.

    Bob S.
  16. Sieze Giorno

    Sieze Giorno Formula Junior

    Jun 5, 2005
    I think it's a great idea and the price would appeal to most. It would be more appealing to know the amount of track time available.
  17. southerncharm

    southerncharm Karting

    Dec 21, 2005
    I fail to see the "Ferrari theme", it appears as what you a proposing is a "race track theme". Have you calculated out the costs of maintaining such a facility? What is the insurance situation? Suppose a driver kills themselve on the track and their family wins a large settlement above your insurance coverage, what affect would that have on the home owners? It would seem as though the real estate transaction should be seperate from the track, the track being its own corporation to sheild the home owner's association from liability. Dale Earnhardt died in what looked like nothing accident, in a NASCAR. You have to expect inexperienced driver's in street cars are going to eventually push their vehicle beyond its, and their own, abilities.

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 11, 2005
    Full Name:
    Toe Knee
    Do you have permission from Ferrari to do this? ie: ferrari theme...

    If I was to buy a house next to a track I would want atleast say 2-3days worth of track time a week. Why would I want to live next to a race track then be restricted to how many hrs I can use it for?

    I can see it more towards holiday home then live 24/7/256.

    Anyway Goodluck :)
  19. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    What is the track configuration? How many corner workers.

    If it is a big track (1 mile +) and you only have a single guy crewing it, no way would I go out on it.

    Houses are easy to build as codes are in place, I think you really need to spend more time doing the homework on the track side.
  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed BANNED

    Apr 28, 2003
    Fegit about doody. He is one of those pointy-headed, large mud-bug eater, lifting little finger, wine drinker types. Who is the name of **** would want to take your wife to the track anyway?

    Seriously, track guys are, well, serious. There is only one thing that counts -- time on the track. Every thing else is a waste of time and money.

    BTW, budget $1MM a mile for the track.

  21. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    You might consider three car garages.

    How do you deal with liability insurance? You are the builder, someone gets hurt or killed onthe track, litiguous society, etc. Or someone drives their car off the track into the backyard of one of the townhomes.
  22. MufflerMan

    MufflerMan Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2005
    Sacramento Ca
    Full Name:
    Colby Sandman
    I would definitley be intrested if it were like a Country Club membership. I live next to a CC and with a phone call I have a tee time, I walk on the course and play. I know the risks of living near a golf course (balls through the windows and such) and have no problem with this, same as living next to a track. Although I am not sure I would want a race car in my living room. I guess my point is, I would have to have access to the track whenever I want (within reason). If not, living there would be torture, like going to the races, it just makes you want to drive on the track.
  23. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    Interesting idea......will the track be limited to certain types of vehicles? God forbid ricers and soccer moms with minivans would be spinning laps.

    A 9 hole golf course in the middle would be another attraction.
  24. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Ryan Alexander

    My two thoughts ^^^

    You're not going to be able to use the Ferrari name, logo or cavallino anywhere.

    I would refer to the setup of Motorsports Ranch and jakermc's Big Bend Villa for an idea of the insurance.
  25. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2004
    Palm Beach, FL
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    #22 jakermc, Dec 30, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  26. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2004
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    I could go on for hours about the project, but to hit a few things that have already been brought up:

    1) Minimum rental period of 6 months - This will turn off many buyers. This will be a second home for nearly everyone and the opportunity for weekend rentals during race events is critical.

    2) Living space vs. Garage Space - Your balance is all wrong. Mine is 1950 sq ft of living space, 925 sq. ft of balcony, and 1850 sq ft. of garage. Again this is a second home, when you are out there you are primarily focused on the track. You are either watching a race from the balcony, driving on the track, or working on the car in the garage. I have two lifts in my garage, a full workshop, a bathroom/shower, and enough room to store 9 cars if two are up on the lifts! I didn't need another house, but I did need a nicer garage. The garage will sell the house. Don't do anything less than a 4 car garage.

    3) Proximity to the track - closer is better. You want to be able to watch as well as drive. You also need to be able to drive your non-street legal car from the grage onto the track. Noise isn't too big a deal. When you go in on a project like this you understand it will be noisy. I wouldn;t want to live there full time with the noise, but for the weekend its part of the experience.

    4) Location - You should know that Jack Farr, the developer and owner of MotorSport Ranch has been consulting with a group in the Atlanta area to put up another MotorSport Ranch there. He has already done this with a group in Houston and that track is up and running already, so his track record of success is pretty well established. The area won't support more than one club, you might want to reach out to Jack and employ his services.

    5) No golf course! - I have seen other concepts like this being pushed in other areas (Autobahn in Chicago, another one in the Poconos) and they all talk about a golf course. Hard core track guys/gals don't play golf. I suppose you could market this for the spouses, but that seems like an expensive build with little return.
  27. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Another question? Does it have to be so close that you are actually a part of the track environment?

    Alternatively and easier to do is a development for car people with all the amenities that entails but very close to the track not necessarily on the track.

    Noise would be a lot less of an issue (read wives happy).

    Downside, it would really be nice to be able to simply drive your race car on a private access road directly to the pits.
    But is that even feasible? I have no idea.
  28. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    Tom Spiro
    Thanks for all the comments. regardless if you like the idea or not, we feel the concept is viable, and will be in heavy demand. we should start pre sale in June...

    The Use of the Ferrari Name is not a firm part of the plan yet, however part of our debt structure is coming from a large Italian/ German bank... so an alignment with a major auto manufaturer is likely, but not at all firm at the moment.

    Our equity partners are a private Hedge Fund in NYC, with extensive ties to German industry/ Banking etc...

    Iwe are looking for completion of the project in April of 2008.

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