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Ferrari VS Fighter Jet 2003 version

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Mule, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Saw this on the Ferrari website:

    Ferrari and jet fighter in speed duel

    Maranello, 6 November – Roma, 8 December 1931: Tazio Nuvolari at the wheel of an Alfa Romeo 2300 met a Caproni 100 biplane in a showdown at the Littorio track. Fifty years later, on 22 November 1981, history repeats itself as Gilles Villeneuve and his Ferrari 126 Ck takes on an F104.

    Illustrious names from the past only add to the fascination of the auto-aero battle which will take place once again this year when the best in each category will exploit the most advanced technology. On 11th December, at Baccarini Airport of Grosseto, the jet plane and the Ferrari will line up, guided by two extraordinary figures: Michael Schumacher will be in the seat of the F2003-GA, the single-seater in which he claimed his sixth world crown, and Maurizio Cheli, the astronaut from Modena, in the cockpit of a Eurofighter 2000. At stake is the title of the fastest mover in town!
    The plan is for three very brief races over a distance of around a kilometre. The Eurofighter will occupy the main runway and the Ferrari the one to the side. The rules allow for the Ferrari to be given a slight advantage in the first run, the jet in the second and for both to start level in the last.
    It will be a gripping affair: the Eurofighter 2000 is a plane that is packed with military technology and is the fruit of the collaboration of the best brains in the European Union. The Ferrari is designed to minimise drag and can top 350km/h; the fighter can reach almost 2450km/h. The jet will be compromised by the short distance and the single-seater can use its lightning acceleration to take the decisive advantage.

    Before the challenge the original 1931 race will be recreated. Schumacher will take the place of Nuvolari at the wheel of the classic Alfa Romeo and will be trying to outrun an antique biplane over the same distance as the first race.

    The airport will be open to the public on the day and the Frecce Tricolori squad will be performing.
     
  2. ferrarist

    ferrarist Formula Junior

    Mar 16, 2001
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    Will be so interesting!
    I wish someone will put it online and we all will get it.
     
  3. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    With the Euro-fighter, the Ferrari will probably win. HOWEVER, with an A10, the Ferrari would be toast.

    Art
     
  4. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    I believe the Ferrari will win just out of initial acceleration but it will be a bit more close than the last few races in history :)
     
  5. ferrariguy

    ferrariguy Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2002
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    I wonder if they'll donate the jet to Ferrari if Schumacher wins! (like the Italian airforce did when Gilles Villeneuve won)
     
  6. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    The Ferrari weighs about 1300# with driver and fuel. The EuroFighter weights, empty, about 18,000#. The Ferrari has about 650 HP maybe as much as 750HP for about 1.5 #s per hp. The EuroFighter has about 30,000 #s of thrust (equivalent to 1 hp each). As you can see, the plane can easily out accelerate the Ferrari. The Plane can fly verticle. i e, straight up, and accelerate to the speed of sound verticle.

    Shouldn't be much of a contest. Where the car will get them is the turns, etc. Who knows?

    Art
     
  7. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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    Art;

    At an air show here a couple of years ago they had a Viper SRT race an F-16 side by side from a standing start. The first run was on "Military power" no afterburner, and the viper won. With Afterburner lit the race was a dead heat.

    Now we know that the F2003-GA can blow a viper SRT into the weeds so i have a feeling that the EuroFighter will be going down as well.

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  8. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    Which F16? A, B, C, D or E model. The original 16 had 30k of trust with its GE motors. New version has over 45k of thrust. The Eurofighter has the latest engines, and is substantially lighter than the 16.

    Art
     
  9. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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    Art;

    It was an F-16 C Blk 60 aircraft. The F1 car has the advantage here since it is suppling power to the drive wheels creating forward movment the second the launch control button has been released. the Eurofighter will have to build up speed slowly at first then once it has kinetic energy built into it it will be accelerating faster than the F1 car. I am not trying to imply that it will not be a close race, it will be very close.

    Also are you sure you have not mixed up the F-15 with the F-16? The A+B model f-16 had P+W F100 engine rated at 25K thrust same as the F-15. The C+D model come with a GE F110 rated at 30K Thrust. General Dynamics never did produce a E version of the 16. McDonnell Douglas produced the F-15 in A-E variants. All came with 2 P+W F100 engines the latest version is also rated at 30K of thrust.

    The Euro fighter weighs more than an F-16 but slightly less than a F-15.

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  10. aawil

    aawil Formula 3

    Aug 10, 2002
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    I also remember seeing Patrick Carpentier's Champ Car race a jet of some sort. That clip is probably floating around on the file sharing networks somewhere.
     
  11. ferrari_kid

    ferrari_kid Formula Junior

    Jul 5, 2003
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    he raced a F/A-18, not sure exactly what model, but it really wouldn't matter. as explained by beast there are two different types of engines at work here and the way they accelerate the vehicle are different. the F1 should win by a long shot from a standing start, but we are talking about over 1km.

    the ef-2000 requires 300m for takeoff and puts out 20k lb*ft of thrust with afterburners. but we're running a 1km race and we'll assume the F1 will top out well before the 1km is up because they'll gear it low for better acceleration (it'll look good for the start which is really what everyone will care about anyway). so the F1 tops out at just around 210mph and the ef-2000 has a takeoff speed of...130mph? so at 300m the ef is going around 130mph, but the F1 will take just about 6 sec to reach 100mph (with 800+hp and a car and driver weight of about 1300#).

    that should basically give you a rough idea of what is going to happen. if we're talking about 1km it seems as if the F1 could possibly win. most of the other videos i've seen only shows the start of the race and doesn't show the finish.
     
  12. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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    One other factor here is can the fighter jet become airborn before the 1KM mark or not? If not the F1 car is at an advantage due to the fact that it is designed for ground use only. Also they can change the gearing and trim out the down force since they do not need it for cornering.

    As for the fighter jet if it has to stay on the ground the pilot will have to work to keep it there. I.E. Forward stick = drag, Tire friction, and not over stressing the landing gear. If the plane lifts off then the pilot can suck up the landing gear and reduce drag and rise above the ground effect boundry layer on the underside of the aircraft. Jets are very efficent in the air not efficent on the ground.

    The F1 car has the advantage.
     
  13. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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  14. ferrari_kid

    ferrari_kid Formula Junior

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    you can see the jet catch up significantly as soon as it became airborne. but i don't know if we can compare this to the EF vs F1. isn't the F1 a lot lighter with more hp than an Indy or Kart car? the EF can take off in a lot shorter distance than the F/A-18 too (300m), so it'll have a lot of time in the air. the problem is i think the F1 will be pretty far ahead by then.

    i haven't picked a side yet, but i'm thinking EF over the F1.
     
  15. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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    Afew other things to remember is that Cart cars do not have launce control or F1 gear boxes with auto upshifts. An F1 car will blow a CART car into the weeds off the line.

    I say that the Ferrari will be the victor!!!

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  16. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    The CF-18 didn't use afterburner. You can get a little more launch by holding the brakes, running up the engine to full afterburner, then releasing the brakes. Also good for de-icing the wingman behind you. Looks like the CF-18 took a pretty leisurly launch. Now how about a F/A-18 versus a CART car on the deck of the USS Abe Lincoln? Jet gets to use the catapult.

    But did the F/A-18 do donuts at the end?
     
  17. ferrari_kid

    ferrari_kid Formula Junior

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    no donuts, but i bet it'd be pretty crazy to see him do some rolls over the runway. good point about the start though. it did seem a bit lethargic.

    as for the catapult launch don't they get to 120kt in about 2sec or so?
     
  18. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Depends on the plane and the gas/weapons load. But about 120-140 kts in two seconds for a F/A-18. With full flaps and gear down, the most amount of drag you can have.

    The E-2 and C-2 take about 4 seconds (sustained 2.5G load). And about the opposite when landing. Good to be the helo guy on a carrier.
     
  19. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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    Ah come on Mule;

    What next have the F2003-GA race against a missle??? In the Viper against a F-16 they raced twice with the afterburners on the second time and it was a dead heat on that race. In that race the F-16 was not allowed to take off. I am just wondering what the rules will be when MS goes against the Euro Fighter?

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  20. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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  21. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Beast,
    I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a Canadian Hornet pilot. He says the CF-18 vs CART car was very well "planned". They did it at an airshow, and made sure it was as close as possible.

    With Ferrari involved, I think the EF vs GA will be very well planned also, the winner doesn't mean nearly as much as the promotion. Maybe Ferrari will protest the EF tire width...
     
  22. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    From a friend of mine (F-16 pilot), "I want to see the guy in the car drive with his feet like I do."

    The Abe Lincoln comment was to show you how a fighter needs a little assist to get fast in a short distance.
     
  23. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    I remeber a "Top Gear" episode a few years back when the Aston DB7 Vantage was new...they wanted to show how it compared to its english counterpart, the jaguar.

    Instead of an XK8 they rolled out a Jaguar fighter plane. All a bit of a joke obviously...but the Aston out accelerated the plane until the plane became airborn and then it was bye bye Aston.

    See ya
    Simon
     
  24. ferrari_kid

    ferrari_kid Formula Junior

    Jul 5, 2003
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    LOL...only if they lose of course, if they win they'll ignore the fact and save it for later when they really really need to use it.

    I was talking to my engineering teacher who setup a race between a rocket car and a russian Su-??. It was setup so that when the plane crossed a laser beam projected 200ft above the salt flats it would ignite the rocket car and the race would be on. Well the rocketcar kicked the plane's ass and crossed the 2mi track length reaching a speed of just over 600mph. Of course the pilot wanted none of this so she asked for a rematch. The only catch was that she wanted to know if he could raise the laser beam higher. He didn't see why another 200ft would make a difference so he did it anyway. During the rematch she climbed to about 30k ft and went into a dive. She pulled up at just under 400ft and left the rocketcar in the dust. She was so fast that the car barely got going by the time she had crossed the finish line.
     
  25. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Ferrari warms up by beating an Alaska Airlines 737.
     

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