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Ferrari vs Lambo - a frank discussion with special guest Allan Lambo

Discussion in '360/430' started by Gary(SF), Jan 15, 2006.

  1. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
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    There's an interesting comment. Needless to say, I completely disagree. The 6 spd 430 is to me much more involving than the F1, I really don't care how polished the F1 technology is. I get a lot of enjoyment from the physical act of shifting myself, getting the revs matched on the downshifts, etc, and I'm not ready to give it up. To say the F1 is the only aspect of the car that makes it special is, well, just plain ignorant.

    Gary
     
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  3. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    I spent quite a bit of time in both an F1 and 6speed. With the F1, the car feels designed around the gearbox. With the 6 speed, it feels no better than an early 360. The F1 felt more powerful also. In short, after walking away from my first test drive in an early Egear Gallardo, I knew that 6 speed was the way to go, while on the 430 it was the opposite.

    As for ignorance, on more than a few of your posts you have proven yours.
     
  4. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    Yeah, Ferrari provides a more powerful engine with the 430s that are equipped with F1. LOL You're truly a great source of valuable information.

    As to your snide comment, for those of you who don't read all the posts in the Lambo section, I suggested that lap times may vary on the same track if not run on the same day with the same driver, and GSpyder apparently thinks this is unlikely.

    Gary
     
  5. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

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    "Only aspect that makes it special?" You gotta be kidding. You should talk to our resident retired pro, Roland Linder, about sticks vs paddles. You won't like what he says. As for power and acceleration (not that important to me BTW),Ferrari's own literature has the stick shift car .05 secs slower 0-62, and that's using launch control with the paddles.

    Dave
     
  6. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
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    GS--this is a congenial group (in general) and your comments seem a little intense, at best. If you find the board of value, subscribe. At least fill out your personal profile. It makes contrarian comments a bit more palatable.

    Your point is well taken, in that some systems in the 430 were designed to best interface with the F1. But some of us (including me) are diehard 6 speed fans, even in spite of the fact that some of us have owned both. There is no question that the systems keep getting better. That will convert some of us, others of us are beyond help. In addition, there is still the issue of lost resale value (F1's and 6 speeds, several years into the run and with some miles on them, tend to trade at equivalent prices) and increased maintanence.
     
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  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    "others of us are beyond help" You nailed that one on the head !
     
  9. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    No one said that they provide a more powerfull engine, just that the car is more suited to the F1 transmission. I am a 6speed guy, my G Spider is a 6speed. Just the fact of not being able to shift the 6speed 430 as quickly as the F1 would make the F1 faster.

    And as for the track times, no one is denying that on different days lap times may vary, my point , reitterated again, is that out of 4 tests, the Nurburgring, Hockenheim, Quattroroute, and EVo, the 430 should have atleast posted one faster time then the old Gallardo on any of those tracks. It hasnt, and it wasnt close either. Ill put money that the SE, will post an even quicker time on the Ring now.
     
  10. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    Damn TDF360, I guess even Ferrari feels the F1 is quicker.....
     
  11. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    On that point, I totally agree. In the future the cost of fixing these trannies will be a huge deterent on resale. But as of now, resale aside, driving both cars simultanously, and never being a fan of the 360 nor 430 for that matter, the 6 speed left me flat, and the F1 was absolutely spectacular. I loved it. And as I have said, inmo, Ferrari hasnt made a decent car in a long long time, even though the 430 inmo, still doesnt look like an exotic, it finally drives like one and feels like one.
     
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  13. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    Yeah, and to further amplify from factory figures, 0.05 quicker in the standing kilometer (21.60 sec vs 21.65)...a huge advantage, certainly one we can all sense, and say "feels much faster". Still LOL. For a gap of 5 hundredths of a second over a 20-sec span, I'll certainly trade driver involvement...Not!

    Gary
     
  14. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    Why would you think that, the old Gallardo was faster than the SE at Hockenheim according to Sport Auto.

    What about the 3-sec gap the F430 put on the Gallardo in the Top Gear test? Oh I remember, something about "different day, different conditions."

    All of which makes my point that if they aren't tested by the same driver on the same day, it's not worth talking about. But you don't agree, fine, we've beat this to death.

    And for the record, I think the Gallardo is a great car, when I bought my 360 I drove it and felt it was a close call, but chose to go with the 360 because of the superior (to me) subjective driver feel. Don't make the mistake of thinking I don't like the Gallardo, because I DO like it. I'd be very happy to own one. The whole lap time issue is not about Ferrari vs Gallardo to me at all, it is simply a philosophical issue regarding validity.

    Peace?

    Gary
     
  15. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    Again, you still dont hear what I am saying. Even though the Se posted a slightly slower time than the reg G, they are BOTH still faster than the 430. Out of all the comparable times, the 430 has yet to post a better time than ANY OF THEM. Even the BIG, fat overweight Murcielago posts much better times. You only fall back on Top Gear as an option, but completely discount the fact that the Gallardo was tested on a completely soaked track. In the other tests they post the conditions and temperatures at the track, and both the G and 430 are comparable.

    Knowing you like the G is nice, inmo, picking a 360 over one is rediculous in my eyes. I can understand the 430, it is that much better performing and feeling than the 360. I wouldnt want a 360 for free.
     
  16. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    Well,, there you go, we disagree on most things, and we disagree on this. Resale values tell me more people agree with me than with you.

    I must say I've lost interest in our overly long talk on track times. You don't see what I'm trying to say, and I certainly don't see what you're trying to say.

    Gary
     
  17. Morgie

    Morgie Formula Junior

    May 3, 2005
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    Out of curiosity GSpyder since you did not fill out your profile, are you a Lambo dealer, in the industry, or just an enthusiast. Your detailed knowledge regarding track times is impressive. I must say that I, despite spending hours on the internet researching G vs F-cars, have not found all of this information. I am impressed because you triggered my memory that the Gallardo was tested on wet track conditions on Top Gear.

    Please tell me your background and car history--just out of curiosity..I am not challenging your accuracy, just interested in your motivation for such a detailed comparison.
     
  18. Scotty

    Scotty F1 Veteran
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    I'll jump in here again. GS-I respect that you don't like the 360 and consider the 430 the first "worthy exotic" in your opinion (I'm paraphrasing here). In a way that is a compliment (from you) for the 430.

    I think the reason some hackles are getting raised here is your seeming lack of acceptance of the other view (which is that the 360 is a true exotic and the Gallardo is not) and/or that understanding that rational, exotic crazy folks would choose a 360 over a Gallardo. I get that it wouldn't be your choice, and for the record a Gallardo wasn't my choice. I've owned two 360's, and I did two test drives (one extended) in the Gallardo because I really wanted to like it. Both were 6 speeds. I love the look, I found the build quality to be excellent and I found the driving experience (both times) to be a letdown. Specifically, the car felt slow, unresponsive, and somewhat uncommunicative. I know those are not the facts about the Gallardo--but it is how it felt to me. I'm guessing, because I don't have a better explanation, that the feel had to do with the AWD system?

    Would I take a Gallardo for free--you betcha. I'd take a Mustang GT, for that matter, as well. But I won't spend my coin for one, in spite of really, really liking the look. It is a "different strokes for different folks" issue. And I do not dispute for one second how well the Gallardo has done in track tests.

    Saying "picking a 360 over a Gallardo is ridiculous" is inflammatory--I am happy to respect your opinion, as long as you are willing to extend me (and tdf360, and other members of this board) the same courtesy.

    Being passionate about the Bulls is cool, but keep it respectful.
     
  19. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    Resale values or falsely inflated values? If Lambo dealers were smart or should I say coniving, they could do exactly what Ferrari does. Like I said, 0 cars available for msrp, but 500 available for over sticker, used with 10 miles on them.
     
  20. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    Slight insite to my background, owned more Ferraris than I count, and owned 2 Diablos, 1 Countach, 1 Murcielago and now ordered a G Spider. Currently own a Diablo SV, Murcielago, and Lotus Esprit.
     
  21. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

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    I don't get your point. I'm talking about used 360 values vs used Gallardo values, very little a dealer can do to influence them. Late model used 360s are still at or near MSRP (especially 6 spd cars incidentally) and Gallardos have taken a pretty good hit.

    And I've always paid MSRP for my Ferraris.

    Gary
     
  22. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    As I said in my post, that is my opinion. Ive never owned a 360, but have literally put thousands of miles on them throughout the years. I have found the car to be again, INMO, one of the most dissatisying cars to drive. The Power is non existant, the looks are extremely dull and uninspiring, and the entrie feel of the car leaves me emotionless. Put it this way, real case scenario, while vacationing in Miami, I had a 360 Spider at my disposal anytime I needed it. I choose to drive my Rent a car. Its not a just a Lambo thing, Id rather have a Porsche GT3,Gt2, 996TT, Aston, etc over a 360.

    As for the Gallardo, I havent said the 430 is not faster than an early Gallardo in a straightline. In my opinion, and my experience, it most certainly is, and by a good margin. I do prefer the looks of the Gallardo to the 430, id rate a Gallardo a 8, while a 430 a 5. Im also pretty certain, that the feel of the F1 Ferrari is superior to that of the early Gallardo, and if i had a choice between the 2, id most likley pic a 430 (although Id stare at my Murcielago while walking up to, and getting into the 430). The Gallardo Se is a different story entirely, it feels completely different than an old Gallardo. Inmo, it is the Ultimate entry level exotic.

    My replies are not pointed as disrespect towards anyone in general, merely differences of opinion.

    And just to clarify, I did not mean that the Ferrari 430 is a Supercar, as in my opinion it is an entry level exotic. What i meant was that it is the first car from Ferrari worthy of purchase since the F40.

    Getting back to the thread at hand, as I said before, same day, same driver, would be the best measure, but at some point in time, with the information we have at hand, the 430, or 360CS should have posted a faster track time in accordance with the Gallardo. It has not. And btw, I do believe the Quattroute test of the Gallardo SE, involved the 430, being there, same time, same place, same driver.
     
  23. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    Late model 360's are only holding value as they are the next best thing for someone looking for a 430, and either not being able to get one, or not being able to afford one. Once you factor in the amounts people were paying over sticker for these cars into the equation, then you can fill in the depreciation gap. As the years go by, the Gallardo will retain its value mutch better than the 360/430. The 360 will eventually be a 40K car, as is the 348, the Gallardo will not. Another good case in point would be the Ferrari 550, ive been offered 97's in the 80's.How much do you think a similarly priced (when new) Diablo will set you back now? Countach vs Testarossa? Miura vs Daytona?
     
  24. GSpyder

    GSpyder Formula Junior
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    Comparing the F1 system in the Maserati to the F1 in the 430 is apples and oranges.
     
  25. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    This "cars owned" list says GSpyder=AllanLambo.

    From his latest sig on 6speedonline:
    06 Gallardo Spyder(coming soon)
    02 Lambo Murcielago
    98 Diablo Sv
    03 1/2 Lotus TT V8
    04 Hummer H2

    And about 2 years ago here:
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=58840&postcount=15
     
  26. YH8T

    YH8T Karting

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    Hey Gspider is a very cool guy, knows a lot about cars, all cars has a deep love for lambo's for sure and has a very strong opinion on his beliefs. With that said he does piss off a lot of people, but I know he ran against a 430 and it gave him a very good race against his Murci even when everyone thought the Murci would kill the 430 it didn't.
     
  27. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

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    "I never owned a 360 but put thousands of miles on them"

    I am dubious

    Dave
     
  28. Morgie

    Morgie Formula Junior

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    "Damnnnn well what can i say, the car drives damn nice. Night and day from the 360. Still not a fan of the styling, i think the Gallardo has it nipped in that department, but as of now, on the drive factor, i think it has the Gallardo beat, atleast in E-gear form. Now whether or not it has the Gallardo whipped for the additional premium you have to pay remains to be seen. If i had a choice between the 2, id have to drive them both back to back. Damnnnnnnn I wanna go drive it some more!!!!!!!"

    Allan-Lambo--did you feel that way when you first drove the Gallardo?
     

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