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Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Bart, Aug 16, 2004.

  1. Bart

    Bart Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,488
    Orange County, Calif
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Many in Formula One believe something must be done about Ferrari. They are so good the others cannot keep up.

    Me, I say Ferrari is the standard. Today, we had a one two finish. That is the way it should be every race.

    Why can’t the Germans, French, Japanese, English, and any others do as an equal to the Italian Ferrari in Formula One?


    Never drive less than 12 cylinders!
     
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  3. VROOM!!!

    VROOM!!! Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2004
    2,478
    Los Angeles
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    Armen
    I ask myself the same question sometimes.
     
  4. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    Bart,

    The last few season's in which Ferrari raced a V12 in F1 they got creamed.

    Ferrari uses a V10 in F1 and has done so for each of their 5 constructor's titles and a likely 5th driver's title.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Also to add on from Jon's comment ... the last time the Ferrari team were all Italian was when they were completely hopeless. The current Ferrari team is very, very multi-cultural, ie.

    Todt is French.
    Brawn is English
    MS is German.
    RB is Brazilian.

    The only thing Italian about the team is the passion for motorsport, and that is how it should stay!

    In the end Ferrari needed to dilute the craziness of Italians to start moving forward again. I love most Italian things, but even I will admit that Italians are absolutely crazy ... :D

    Pete
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    BTW: A Ferrari v12 engine has NEVER won a championship, NEVER, either the constructors OR the drivers.

    - 4 cylinders, yes - Ascari (2).
    - v6's, yes - Hawthorn.
    - v8s, yes - Fangio (might have been v6), Surtes.
    - Flat 12s, yes - Lauda (2), Schecter.
    - v10s, yes - MS.

    Infact both times they used the v12 engine layout in F1 corresponds with the worst period for the manufacturer, ie. the late 60's and the 80's and 90's.

    Pete
    ps: Infact a v12 engine of any manufacturer has never won a championship!
     
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  8. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,282

    Man, the problem was not about being or not being Italian. Don´t forget that Paolo Martinelli, Luca Baldisseri and even Luca Montezemolo are still there.
     
  9. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Nobody loves Italian stuff more than I ... but I do have to pay a price.

    Look at the reliability record of Ferrari road cars, Ducatis (nothing but a joke when it comes to reliability ... but oh so beautiful), Alfa Romeos (I own one and love it to bits but the build quality is appalling ;)).

    What mainly let Ferrari down was the Italian team and press going completely crazy when a race was lost, etc. The first reaction was to fire somebody ... :( ... Todt managed to stop that, nobody else ever managed to.

    Even Enzo had most of his team walk out on Ferrari in the 60's.

    Remember in the 90's when Prost told the team that the car was a piece of cr@p, and close to impossible to drive on bumpy tracks ... what did they do, they sacked the debateably best driver on the current F1 grid!!!!!! ... crazy. You all will say that Prost said it the wrong way, but he had been telling the team on the quiet that the car had problems and where and they would not listen ... thus he told the press. Should he have done that? ... probably not, but he must have been frustrated beyond belief ... and he got sooooo close to a WC with them. We also have to remember that Barnard was designing then and he is a Pom ... but also caused more harm than good, even though he is brilliant, by insisting he worked in England.

    So in the end, yes I am bagging Italians, but New Zealanders have their faults too ... probably more than Italians ... and I'm a Kiwi (NZer for those that have not heard that term). We all have our faults, no point hiding behind them, far better to accept and face them and as Ferrari did hire a brilliant Boss in Todt.

    Thus I make no appologe for my comments towards Italians. When I fall in love with an Italian product, I buy it KNOWING that it is beautiful, lovingly engineered and put together like it belongs in the trash ... (if you don't believe me go and read a few posts on this Ducati forum: http://speedzilla.zeroforum.com/ ... these guys love them bad, but they also suffer, big time!)

    Pete
    ps: Also talk to the Agnelli family about the appalling work force that used to make the FIAT cars ... and why the FIAT factory (used to?) leads the way with robotic technology to build the cars. Why?, so nobody has to touch them and cause a build problem or otherwise involve the Unions.

    I can also tell you plenty of stories about Alfa Romeo ... like the guy that decided he would not prime the Alfa Sud shells today, but would not let anybody replace him (thanks to Unions), thus poor Alfa Romeo had to keep on building shells and store them OUTSIDE in the weather!!!! What did this guy achieve? ... just about ruined the company that paid for the food that he feed his family with ...!

    I think the thing I am seeing here is they do not think about the consequences of their actions ...
     
  10. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,282
    I still think that the problem is not about being or not being Italian. You can find great Italian products and other ones that are **** despite not being Italian. So Ferraris and Ducatis are crap, OK, maybe they are, but many Volkswagens are too, despite the "Made-in-Germany" stuff. It doesn´t mean that all Volkwagens are crap, of course.

    Just take a look at the Jaguar F1 team: che cassino!! and it´s the most British of the F1 teams.

    Ah, I´m a bit Italian, and I don´t fit in the stereotype: I´m not funny, nor attractive or whatever.
     
  11. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jan 19, 2003
    6,651
    Indianapolis
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    DJS
    Well said!
     
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  13. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    I agree 100%! The other teams need to catch up to Ferrari and be competitive. Its not Ferrari's fault that the other teams are incompitent and inefficient.

    The critics keep complaining to slow down the Ferrari cars, change the rules, make Michael retire and other ways to inder Ferrari. The only way to beat Ferrari is by actually improving themselves. Stop complaining and start working harder! Don't complain F1 is boring! If you don't want to work hard to make your team better, find another motorsport.
     
  14. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Yes ... and sterotyping never works. In the end the Italians IMO add heaps to the flavour of this world ... think art, culture, food and passion, etc.

    I just think Italians (sterotyping again sorry) have a couple of amusing issues:
    - Politics ... never ending saga of arm waving and confusion ;)
    - True understanding of quality.

    BTW: I wish in many ways I was born an Italian ... so I'm not knocking them completely, just having a laugh at their expense ... ;)

    Pete
     
  15. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    pete...180 degree v-12!!

    just had to throw that in...

    pete
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Yeah yeah smarty ;) :D ... Ferrari called it a boxer engine, but yes I do understand the crank layout.

    So other than the 180 degree, flat or boxer 12 cylinder, a 12 cylinder engine has never been successful in F1.

    Pete
     
  17. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    you are correct pete!!

    cheers my friend!!

    pcb
     

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