News

First chink in the armor-warm up takes forever

Discussion in '308/328' started by JoeZaff, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2007
    5,403
    Philly suburbs
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Of course, all cant be great in Ferrari land. I had an extra half-hour on my hands and decided I would take the Mondial out to stretch her legs. It was a brisk 58 degrees out so the top and windows were up. Well, I spent the entire half-hour and 25 miles waiting for the oil temp to finally pass the second hash mark (the one before the 210 degree). (It never really got more than a needle's width passed the second hash). I ended up driving her an extra 20 minutes just so I could justify the trip. Bottom line: it takes way too long on a cool day for these cars to warm up. On normal days, she gets up to temp relatively quickly, but in the cold it is just ridiculous. I have been reluctant to just let her sit and idle for awhile before taking her out. I may have to reevaluate if I am planning on doing any winter driving...which brings me to point number two. The cabriolets are infinitely more enjoyable with the top and windows down. When everything is buttoned up, you are constantly reminded with every bump just how much more stiff the fixed roof cars.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Brunello

    Brunello Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2005
    250
    Vancouver, British C
    Full Name:
    Al
    #2 Brunello, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
    I also had long warm up times in cool weather for my GTB. I began to realize that the oil temperture gauge took forever to move from the left hand side of the dial. I brought this up with my Ferrari mechanic and he said that this was normal in the older cars. Believe me that your oil temperature is higher than what your guage is probably telling you. Lastly, I use to start my car and wait for it to warm up by looking at the water temp gauge. My mechanic said that I should start the car and begin to slowly drive her right away....no sitting around waiting for it to warm up. So basically a running warm up -slow shift and low rpms below 3000 until she warms up. I found that she ran better and never had a problem with the car. May have something to do with fouling the spark plugs or something to do with the electrical charging system.
     
  4. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,233
    UK
    What was the water temperature doing? If that was also taking a long time to come up or if it moves around for anything other than sitting in traffic then most likely your thermostat needs replacing. That would affect oil temperature. The water temp in my 328 is up to the mark in roughtly 4-5 miles ever since I replaced the T'stat & it does that pretty much whatever the external temperature.

    Oil temperature is also a function of how hard the thing is working -if you amble it will take forever. I think the best way is to wait for it to come off the bottom of the gauge past the first mark & then start to work the thing progressively harder - not giving it "the full beans " but starting to stretch it up towards 4500/5000 rpm. I find that then brings then brings the oil temp up fairly quickly.

    If you still can't get it to come up then maybe look at restricting the airflow to the oil cooler for the winter. If the Mondi is the same as the 308/328 then there is no thermostat in the oil cooler line.
     
  5. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2007
    5,403
    Philly suburbs
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Thanks for the replies. The water temp goes up quickly, like a regular car. It's just the oil temp that takes forever. I have been following the exact procedure Brunello suggested. However, when the oil hits the first hash mark, I start bringing her up to 4K. I don't think there is problem with the car. I just think this warm up procedure is one great big pain in the A$$.
     
  6. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    4,625
    Indiana
    Full Name:
    JIM
    Does the Mondial have the lever on the oil cooler box like the GT4's have??? It closes off airflow through the oil cooler so the oil warms up faster....

    just a thought.

    JIM
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,835
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    A gearbox with a separate oil system - like every automobile I can think of - is not subject to combustion gasses/pressure/moisture from combustion. Warming it up in the same sense as the engine is unnecessary. It does not develop condensation/acids, etc like the engine oil does. Warming it up is related to good shifting, etc, not to any need to "burn off" harmful gasses/moisture generated by combustion.
     
  9. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,366
    NY
    FOAM is the answer. I have used a piece of foam inserted in the intake duct. Just get it at home depot and cut it to size and stick it in. I find that during the winter this solves the problem.
     
  10. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2007
    5,403
    Philly suburbs
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I wish I could, but it would be a tricky proposition with the Mondial side grates. Of course, this wouldn't be an issue had Ferrari thought to put a thermostat in the oil cooler line. I love my car, but this was pretty stupid, don't you think. On a really cold day, I can imagine that trying to warm up the car while driving at anything over say 30MPH would take forever.

    A matter of fact, I may just put it in storage once the temp consistently goes below 50 degrees, and bring it out in the Spring. It's not nearly as much fun to drive once it is buttoned up and this prolonged warm up process is the icing on the cake.

    On an interesting side note, I recall that the manual says not to exceed 4K or 5K (I don't recall) until the WATER temp gets up to operating tempature, not the oil temp. Of course, I know that is just flat out wrong, but is just funny how important oil temp is and how it is ignored by just about every auto manufacturer, heck most don't even put oil temp gauges in the cars.
     
  11. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Feb 17, 2006
    3,874
    San Jose area
    Full Name:
    Brian Harper
    I think that not even all GT4's have that. It seems to have been left off, I think starting with Series 2 GT4's. So I think that perhaps none of the GTB/s got that feature.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,835
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    You really don't need to worry about oil temp in other than a competition situation. And in competition, the issue is worrying about whether the oil is too hot. That's why the owners manual refers to the water temp. There is no consideration given to oil temp as far as when to apply full power - only water temp. The important part is to have the engine clearance relationships correct when power is applied, especially cylinder wall/piston rings. Until the engine is warmed up, they are not mating/sealing correctly. When the water temp gauge is in the normal range, the walls/rings are working as they are supposed to, assuming the engine was assembled properly. As long as it's not too hot, oil temp is essential immaterial; it will be fine if the water temp is up.
     
  14. D.Mauro

    D.Mauro Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2006
    1,266
    Cumming/ Hlwd Fl
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Joe, try driving in 40-50 dergee weather with the top down, heater on, and driving gloves, it is a good experience. I did it for many years when i live in the north, and the car will like it and it will run great in the cold.
     
  15. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2002
    6,383
    Stepford, Connecticut
    Full Name:
    dave m
    Heated garage, lower weight oil like 5-30,0-30 etc... Not sure if you can fit a piece of cardboard in front of oil cooler, like all the diesel trucks do in the winter. I drive mine all year as long as the roads are clean. Better than letting it sit. Just keeps the revs down til warm.
     
  16. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2007
    5,403
    Philly suburbs
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Can anyone second this. It would seem to make sense given auto manufacturer's treatment of oil temp. However, I must admit it goes against everything I have been told through the years regarding the importance of oil temp in determining whether the engine is really up to to operational temp. I am always one to learn new things, however, and would be more than delighted to be wrong on this one!
     
  17. samba-lee

    samba-lee Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2006
    675
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Lee Griffiths
    #14 samba-lee, Oct 4, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2008
    I too have the same oil warm up lag and I don't seem to have the lever on my GT4 that is mention so was thinking about the foam option this winter. I also think that my water thermostat needs replacing.

    I would intuitively agree with the idea that the important thing for oil temp is the max rather than the min (within reason) as too hot an oil temp could damage its protection capability. This is something very apparent on air cooled cars where oil temps are way higher than water cooled cars and the oil condition degrades quickly.

    I guess though that we feel we should nurse the car until everything is warm because it feels right to us.

    You could fit an engine block warmer like they fit in Scandinavia : ) but it's probably not necessary.

    Lee
     
  18. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 18, 2007
    2,377
    Northern VA
    Full Name:
    Dave W
    I think oil mostly needs to be at a minimum temperature so that it will flow properly. Aircraft engines have minimum oil temperatures for starting and for full power but the temps are pretty low (only a factor when it is really cold). In our t, I just wait until second gear engages smoothly and I let her rip. If you want the oil hot in the winter you have to earn it. Consider it a challenge. As mentioned before the oil temperature gage is primarily installed to keep you from overheating the oil. I really would accept what Ferrari put in the manual and enjoy your car in the winter.
    Dave
     
  19. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,233
    UK
    As has been said, I think basically you are just being too cautious. Start working the thing a bit harder once you have water temperature and once the oil temp gauge comes off the bottom & moves past the first mark.

    That said, bear in mind it will take 15-20 miles to get the gearbox properly warmed through so don't spank it round to 7K but just press on a bit - I doubt it will take much to see the oil temp climb quite quickly whatever the weather.
     
  20. 76Steel

    76Steel Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2007
    1,324
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #17 76Steel, Oct 5, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2008
    Today in NJ the weather was nice, but not quiete the "summer weather". I started the 308, tapped the gas pedal a few times to 1500rpm and took it out of the garage for a 1 to 2 minute warm up before a drive. After my 2nd went in gently I drove a little harder, but did not shift forcefully until the oil temp needle moved. The car run fantastic and I was so happy to hear that engine after being away from the vehicle for a couple of weeks. After a 15 mile run I parked the car before putting it into the garage, looked at it and said to myself ... I love Ferrari. Simple, but true.`

    I used to think that I would store the car for winter, (this will be my 2nd winter as an owner), but I decided that I'm going to drive it (prob once/ twice/ three x week) unless it rains or snows.
     

Share This Page