First Ferrari !!!

What!?

Even getting an engine that "has not been started recently" safely to a point where it can be evaluated is a significant expense/effort, and just "sitting for 10 years" can cause problems (like 1/2 the gearbox internals being a rust bucket). Based on your description and the unknowns, ~$10K would be a gift to the Seller -- JMO...

 

There are many discussions on these kinds of cars and situations.

Here's a recent one

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387014

 

I would recommend having a complete inspection done by a trustworthy specialist mechanic before purchasing the car--BUT I think buying a sorted car will be far cheaper in the long run than getting into a restoration project situation. I don't think I would enter on this journey, personally. Unless you are really committed financially to this new project, it will end up languishing for another ten years while you chase down random parts and figure out all the things that made the previous guy give up on the project. I wouldn't buy this car unless I myself was an expert mechanic and capable of doing the work myself. Otherwise the labor to sort the car you are describing is going to be a killer. A complete engine rebuild could cost as much as 20 grand to have someone do it for you. The PO of my GT4 spent 13 K on a rebuild, and that was about 6 years ago. My father always taught me "You buy the car that some other guy has already spent the money on." That rule has never steered me wrong.

 

Nobody wants to spoil your first Ferrari but what you described is worth a guesstimate of around $8k. A dash maybe cost a couple grand, door panels 500 each. Who knows how many thousands of dollars worth of other things are missing? Even with your engine building experience the parts for engine rebuild probably 8 to 10k at least double if someone does professionally . When it's all said and done you've got a car worth 25 to 28k and that's if everything goes well.

 

Go got it !

 

I would consider it at 5-6k and if the seller won't go that low I'd run!

 

Run Forest RUN!! Lost

PS you can do much better by spending a lottle more up front!

 

The joy of restoring a car is also worth something. If you can put a price tag on that part - let's say comparing it to another hobby, like golf. Then it might work out well anyway. A selling price of 30k and a total purchase+rebuild cost of 35k might be good enough.

But I would advice to think about how much time you can spend on the rebuild. It takes time ...

 

Run Forest, Run!

Seriously, unless you are really prepared to spend a lot of money and probably YEARS restoring this car, don't even consider it. I have been down this "Hey it's a good price" road myself - specifically with an E-type Jag - and 7 years later I sold it unfinished for about 1/4 of what I had in it. I was doing all the work myself and it turned into a genuine death march.

Obviously, if you do this sort of thing a lot and understand the time/money that can be involved that's a different thing but if it is a first time for such and undertaking, this is the wrong car!

 

+1. Get out before it pulls you in.

You can buy this for $15k, spend another $15k on parts, several years of labor, and $10-15k on paint/body work to bring it back. In 2017 or so, you'll have a nice runner and $40-$50k invested.

Or you can get a nice early 80s car for $20-25k and start driving it tomorrow.

 

Don't bother. Go find a car that is complete for 10k more and have fun driving!

Jim

 

It is SO hard to turn down what appears to be a great opportunity, but these cars are VERY expensive to own - less so if you are a wrench but you can't make the parts yourself and they will not be cheap.

My advice is find one that is at least a good and whole car and take your lumps from there. As another poster said, "Run Forrest Run!"

MB

 

These 308s are plentiful. You would be so much better off finding a decent one and paying more. Surely you have learned this lesson with your Spider. Those are great cars that are not worth much restored. 308 is the same in that regards. Best to buy a car that someone else has gone upside down in their labor of love. Spending 25-30 opens up all sorts of options for decent drivers. As the others have stated, this car you are describing is a financial pit. No telling what else has gone missing. Sounds like someone started parting it. Replacing those missing parts is a deal killer on this local car. Offer him 5 and finish parting it. Hope you are able to fulfill your goal of ownership....just not with this one. Even if you love the restoration process, this is not the car. You need to start with a complete running car. You can find a needy complete running example for 19-20 if you are patient.

Best Regards,
John M

 

Even a decent and reasonably well maintained Ferrari of any model has a more than even likelihood of developing an $$$ issue or two or three down the line. Then you have of routine maintenance, quite costly at intervals.

If you're not a master mechanic, do yourself a favor and don't buy a borderline basket case for your first one. Other posters are right on -the costs of bringing it back could easily far exceed the purchase price of a good example.

 

308s are plentiful in number and the most allround popular Ferrari model, parts available from a variety of sources - Ferrari dealers, well-established indy dealers, ebay and other online sources, Ferrariads here, indy makers (check out Birdman and Verell here), and so on. A good model to own, be it the first Ferrari or the tenth.

The mystique is in the mind, and one that the unscrupulous will use to their advantage. It's a car, bottom line nothing more.

Yes, parts are expensive and labor rates at both dealers and indy shops on the high end, but in the same ballpark as BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. I spent lots more keeping my '85 635CSi on the road than I have for both Ferraris together.

The value in the BMW came with a low purchase price, driving it daily for five years, and putting lots of miles on it. Residual value was next to nothing.

My 330 2+2 more than doubled in market value over five-year ownership and I came out a few thousand ahead at the end (spent the purchase price again on restoration and elective work). The 308, a very nice example, could reasonably fetch what I paid for it and possibly more in a shrinking pool of good-to-excellent cars.

 

+1

Mystique? Maybe. There's certainly something that makes us want to own one. Unknown? Hardly. Between this forum and other online resources, the 308 is probably one of the best documented classic cars you could ever hope to find. I catch myself thinking "I wish there was a place like FChat for this..." when I'm working on other cars.

I agree with what's been said, find a complete car. ANY 308 will be a project one way or the other, sooner or later, due to their age. It's a lot easier (and cost-effective) to fix what comes along in one that was complete and ran to begin with. If you really want a big project, go for it, but $15k for an incomplete car sounds way too high. Patience and negotiation will go a long way when looking for 308s since so many are still around.

 

Run as fast as you can. Maybe the seller will pay you to take the car? His chance of selling it as is, zip at $15k. Be smart and move on to another car; your first Ferrari may be waiting at the next seller's door step.

 

I'm not an expert on these cars at all. I am a newbie as well. But my impression is this: You can find the mechanical parts without an extraordinary effort (but because they are for a Ferrari they can be overpriced), but body panels and trim pieces and such are very expensive. So buying a car missing a full dashboard and other interior parts would make me nervous more than a car needing engine work. At least with Alfas there are a zillion parts cars (I have a GTV6 Alfa) to get most of these things from but even then a lot of the plastic bits are NLA. Given the price of parts, maybe you should buy this car low and part it out at a profit and then use that money to buy a sorted car! You'll be driving sooner than if you restore it.

 

Brad - dead-on comment about mystique. Ferrari has it like no other and and it persists even with well-experienced owners who've long since recognized that objectively, it's just a car. After my 308? Another Ferrari, of course. No debate, only question is which model.

308 issues: from personal experience and accounts of others, overheating and electrical seem to be at the top and a result of inherent design flaws/outdated technology. For me, living in state where cooler summer days are hot as hell brings brings the oveheating into all the sharper focus. It's been an ongoing process, but the problem is now solved satisfactorily enough and I'll continue to nick away at it. I've had no problems to speak of on the electrical end but installed Birdman fuseblocks as a pre-emptive and safety measure.

I've also had some persistent minor oil leakage problems and again, an issue that's taken time and patience to resolve.

Otherwise, largely issue free. Threw a belt and coolant overflowed. Lost a couple of batteries due to extreme temperature range here in TX.

Starts every time, runs awesome, and is a real pleasure to drive in all ways.

 

Welcome to FChat! The 308 is reliable and easy to work on, it just isn't cheap. IMHO (I own a 308, but I am not a pro mechanic), since you can find a good car for around $30K, $15K is high for a car in need of as much work as you described in your original post. Even if you do all of the work yourself, your parts bill will likely add up to more than $15K if you assume worst case with each area in need. You can be upside down quickly. If you do decide to take on this project, please post your progress with pictures on FChat! We love a good project

Without the benefit of a full inventory of the condition of this car, here is what I would guess as to the cost for this project assuming you’re doing most of the work. Also you might want to search FChat for discussion about each of these areas to fine tune these numbers with your abilities:

Brakes $2500
All Hoses/Lines $700
Radiator $500
Misc Switches, Relays, Controls, Electrical, Gauges $2000
Suspension $2000
Paint & Body $5000

Mostly intact – Misc missing parts $2000
Missing dash $1500
Seats $3000
Door panels $1500
Does not have original rims $3000
Engine has not been started recently $1500 (belts, oil change/filter, misc gaskets) - $10,000 (parts and machine work to overhaul the engine)
Gearbox (big question mark) $200 - $3000

Total $25,400 – $36,700 Add the initial cost of the car to this total and you’ll have $40K - $51K into this machine
So, I would either pay the asking price and have fun, bid it down to account for the actual market value of this project (could be worth the asking as a parts car), or walk away.

Here’s a great article about doing a full engine overhaul:
http://www.norwoodperformance.com/forza_article.htm

Good luck with your decision!

 

+10 on the expense of fixing this thing.

 

Dude,
A 3X8 series cars are nothing like a Alfa or a 240z.
I have done work on all sorts of Alfa's and z cars, and I still have my 1970 240z.
Parts are easy to come by, and affordable.

The best advice I got here, buy the best you can afford. You are WAY off better buying
a car that's running, so at least you know what you are getting, or at least a clue ;-)

Parts are expensive, repair expertise is important, and mistakes get really expensive, fast.

So, if I decided to buy a 3X8, and I had the $15K, ... I would go out and borrow another $15K, buy a $25-30K car, and drive it. At least you have something to drive, and the monthly payment would be way cheaper than restoring a basket case. But, you would still need to know that you will be spending some money for keeping the car running.

Before I got my 328, I looked at all sorts of projects.... 308GT4, a 246GTS, 308, all were in
non-running condition, and the work that faced me, all the research, and the info on this forum saved me from having a big hole in my wallet, and no smile on my face.

The smile I have on my face when I go out for a drive, makes ownership very worthwhile........ You only live once.......

 

As others have eluded to...$15k is NOT a good price for the car as you've described. You can find many for $30k +/-...the one you are looking at will cost much more than that. Just getting the engine sorted will run $10k at least.