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first timing belt job impasse

Discussion in '308/328' started by mike87328gts, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    10,707
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    Mitchell Le
    The Snap On stud remover kit is the tool to get...
     
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  3. Aus_yz

    Aus_yz Rookie

    Sep 5, 2015
    38
    Australia
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    Mika
    The compressor upper mounts are 2 spilt rubber bushes and a steel sleeve per stud , if you remove these you should be able to clear the timing cover stud . Just pry them out with a flat blade screw driver.
     
  4. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
    19
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    michael thomas
    Ok gentlemen...the Odyssey continues....

    Still have not yet completed the AC swing over. I literally am 1mm away.

    One stud is preventing me from clearing the water pump pulley and its not the lower one anymore.

    I was able to remove the upper AC bracket before the swing over by coming up from underneath and behind. So that allows me to go high clearing the lower stud.

    I was able to double nut the center stud out. That one was threaded into the cam belt cover itself. You can see that in the pics.

    But now the top one is just preventing me from rotating the compressor clear of the water pump to get it over... Problem is that upper stud is buggered. It also is a case stud passing through a smooth bore hole in the cambelt cover. I will not give up.

    Also, someone was definitely in here messing with the AC compressor before me... I noticed two different thread kinds for the compressor studs. m10x1.25 and m10x1.5.

    That certainly didn't leave the factory that way? Anyway...I hope to report success soon.
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  5. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    2,938
    Tallahassee, FL
    Be careful with that tool - it can destroy a stud's threads.

    Have you considered just supporting the compressor vertically from underneath, so that you don't have to remove it completely?
     
  6. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
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    michael thomas
    Thorn,

    I will be careful!

    The stud's threads are pretty much gone already. When I was backing the locknut off that stud originally when I was removing the AC tensioner it was practically frozen on and it just smoothed out the threads on the way out. I'm fairly certain I will be replacing it no matter what happens.

    I'm not trying to remove the compressor. I am just trying to get it over the fuel cell so it can hang there while I do the timing belt job.

    That has to be done so the front cambelt cover can be removed. It's assumed that these studs in one degree or another have to be removed to allow the room to do that operation.

    Mike
     
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  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    10,707
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    Mitchell Le
    In addition to whatever stud puller you decide to use, you also need to heat the base of the stud with a torch or a heat gun. The aluminum expands more than the steel stud and it will give way.
     
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  9. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
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    michael thomas
    In this case, I fail to see how heating up the base will accomplish anything. The base of the stud is several inches behind the cover.

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  10. Brian A

    Brian A Formula 3

    Dec 21, 2012
    2,451
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    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    Sad to hear you're having to deal with this on your first belt change. The good news is that once you've put in new studs you won't have to deal with the problem again.

    Note that you might have to evacuate your a/c system and remove the compressor. At least on my car, and many others report the same, the a/c hoses are not long enough to hang the compressor out of the way over the tank. That a/c compressor is the most hate-able component on the car.

    Regarding the stud, if you absolutely cannot reuse it, is it possible to shorten it just to move the compressor out of the way? I can't remember if there is sufficient clearance, but it may be that you can slide the cam belt cover off of the studs to get better access to the stripped stud once the a/c compressor is moved.

    Bummer that this is happening to you. Those studs "shouldn't" be seized like that. Any idea how many years the old timing belts have been on the car?
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    You stick the heat gun nozzle behind the timing cover and aim the hot air at the base of the engine where the stud is. If you have a real heat gun, it takes just a couple of minutes to get the block nice and hot enough.
     
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  13. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Paul
    Can you get an impact gun on it? Because that will do it, trust me.
     
  14. Portofino

    Portofino Karting

    Sep 17, 2011
    231
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Cote d Azur
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    Portofino
    Hacksaw sufficient tip off say 2-3 mm .Put a bolt on first to redo what thread is left after its cut .
     
  15. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,461
    Uk
    Weld a nut on it and turn it out
     
  16. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
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    michael thomas
  17. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
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    michael thomas
  18. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
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    michael thomas
    Much to my horror...after I got that stud out, you still DO NOT have enough clearance to do the swing over...

    perhaps the 308 fuel cell is a different shape or the compressor is a different dimension...but for 328 owners, you have to remove the water pump pulley as well.


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  19. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
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    michael thomas
    I just used my hand to hold the pulley still. and used an impact very gingerly and the m12 came right off..no need to power it...just little bursts

    then this tool for the pulley...be gentle and deliberate and make sure you are square on it...no problem
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  20. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    Heat gun, stud remover and impact wrench. You are now a real mechanic. Are you ready for the next set of 4-letter words?

    Try removing the back-plate on the forward bank (5-8) with a bunch of little bolts with 8mm heads.
     
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  21. mike87328gts

    mike87328gts Rookie

    Oct 7, 2020
    19
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    michael thomas
    I appreciate your help Mitchell, as well as everybody else who has posted here. Thank you.

    Yeah, those little 8mm bolts were a royal pain....most of them are ok to get at, but 1 or 2 per bank are head scratchers. Thankfully once you get them cracked with a wrench or socket from various angles, you can use your fingers to get them the rest of the way out. I can imagine getting them back in will suck. I foresee dropping them a few times.

    Oh and seriously guys...if you don't have a lift you can forget this job. I cant count how many times I've gone from extreme low height, to all the way up, to somewhere in between. One static position, especially low jack stands, forget it.


    Once they were out, the 5-8 cambelt cover just came right out. However, something that was never mentioned in all the info I've seen thus far, is that the 1-4 cover cant come out unless you loosen the clamp on the bottom of the air inlet and raise it up a few inches. The two large air lines coming off the bottom of the air inlet do not allow you to bring the cover forward enough to clear the cam gears. Perhaps this is a 328 only step but I rather think not... never saw it mentioned though.

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  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Dude, for this job:

    step 1: remove engine lid and store it someplace safe
    step 2: remove air inlet hose, air box, and hang loose all hoses attached to the air box.
    step 3: remove the water pump hose, pipe diving to the bottom, and associated baffles and shields at the bottom the car.

    THEN you get to the fun stuff with the AC.

    And if you are going to remove the cam covers for checking your valve clearance, you also remove the fuel distributor and fuel lines going to the injectors.

    LIFT? I have a lift but for this job I do it on the floor.
     
  23. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,973
    Kingsport, TN
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
    I have an '87 328 GTS and have never removed the fuel distributor and fuel lines going to the injectors when doing valve shim checking and changing to get proper clearance. I've done it several times in my 33 year ownership.
     
  24. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    You can leave the fuel distributor and fuel injector lines on but it's just that much harder to get to the valve cover and the air plenum nuts. You can do the whole thing with the engine lid on, but it's much easier with it off.
     
  25. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,973
    Kingsport, TN
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
    I remove the engine lid for valve adjustment and for cleaning up the front cam cover sealing surfaces prior to sealing. The reason I do not touch the fuel injector lines is because they look fragile to me but removal would make things easier like you say. Years ago I had to replace cam seals at the driven end. Injector line removal would have made that considerably easier on the rear bank but, again, I was leery about removing the lines. I've never removed the air plenum.
     
  26. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,930
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    Mike 996
    I suspect that a lot of such issues are related to when (if ever) the previous work was done, how it was done and any corrosion/rust,etc that may have developed and is contributing to the difficulty.

    I have replaced the cam belts twice on my 328 and didn't have any particular problems - Stud removal by double nutting/removing compressor was straightforward. Don't own a lift but a pair of jack stands were adequate for this task. A set of flex-head ratchet wrenches make belt-cover removal MUCH easier!!!
     
  27. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    10,707
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    The last 328 I touched had a rotted out bleeder nipple at the cross-pipe under the plenum. The plenum had to come out in oder to remove the pipe from the car, taken to a bench vise, drill out the offending nipple, re tapped and replaced with a new nipple. Removal of said plenum requires removal of the injector lines, a ground down 13mm wrench, and finesse to keep the eight bushings from ruining your day.

    To Mr. 328 of this thread, you need to replace that bleeder hose at the very least.
     

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