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Flashing relay updated diagram

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by raemin, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    389
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Anyone succeeded in enabling flashing fog-lights on a 400i gen1 ?

    I kind of like the possibility to flash the fog light when the the headlights are down. Reading the manual it seems that this is just as simple as connecting the spare cable 113 on the fog-light positive wire, but this does not work as expected...

    Looking at the (numerous) diagram(s) I have it seems that much more work would be required in order to properly enable the feature, before butchering the wiring harness, could someone post a pic of the wiring of his relay?
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,968
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Apr 6, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
    Per your 400i OM schematic, just put that 113 spare connector onto the one unused terminal of the 63 fog light switch. This should give you the behavior of:

    Stalk knob "off" (headlight down), Stalk pulled back = fog lights go "on"

    Stalk knob "on" (headlights up), Stalk pulled back = headlights go "on" (or a bit brighter if already "on")

    Have you confirmed that that 113 spare connector does go +12V relative to ground when you pull the stalk back (with the stalk knob "off")? If not, you may have a bad relay 91 or an incorrect relay installed in the relay 91 position (it should be of the ...101 type).

    Relay 91 on the schematic is called "18 - relay for flashing" in the relay section. It's really sort of misnamed as it should be called: "relay for directing whether the headlights flash (with the headlights up) or terminal 113 flashes (with the headlights down)".
     
  3. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    389
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Thanks for the clarification, I've somehow managed to find how it is supposed to work now... Bad news: my stalk has probably suffered, hence the reason why it does not work properly.

    It seems the flashing command bypasses the [high beam / low beam] relay (yellow cables), so the high amp current passes through the stalk! That's quite a lot of current taking into account I use "night breaker" bulbs (remember we had yellow painted lights back then, so we need as many lumens as possible). To crown it all you may have read one of my previous post with a picture of the "porky" connection I spotted weeks ago on my terminal 113.

    Hungry halogen bulbs, horrendous connection without relay to protect the expensive stalk: this is going to take a while to fix.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    I just cannot figure out why the yellow output of the flashing relay is not used as the red input of the high beam relay that's a cheap protection for the stalk. Modifying the wiring is an option but it took me so long to remove the previous owner mess, that I'd rather avoid leaving my own mess to the next owner.

    I am afraid 1) It's going to take a while to fix this and 2) cannot keep the Nigh Breakers bulbs...
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,968
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Are you saying that you've confirmed that terminal 30 of relay 91 does not go +12V when you pull back the stalk? I.e., the contacts of the stalk pull back action are burned and no good? (The design reasoning was, although the current is relatively high, the time of current flow is quite short (so the heating of the pull back switch contacts should be minimal.)
     
  5. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    389
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Did not check the relay for now. When checking light blue and dark blue from the stalk with an ohmmeter, I do not have a clear continuity as with the other commands. By contrast Black/Red Black/Yellow do produce a clear beep when moving the stalk down. I will try to short the blue wires and see if it flashes properly, which would definitively incriminate the stalk.

    With a bit of luck (luck with a Ferrari is a lot to ask), the contact is corroded (I never pull the stalk), so this could go away with some use. Has anyone managed to spray contact cleaner without disassembling the stalk?
     
  6. au400i

    au400i Rookie

    Oct 26, 2018
    17
    I approached this a little differently for a slightly different outcome. I have run an ignition switched relayed power supply to the fog light toggle switch on my console (near the radio). I use my fog lights as day time running lights so that I'm more likely to be seen by other drivers. But it also give me the ability to flash my fogs anytime using the fog toggle switch.

    I realise that this is not as convenient for daily driving (especially in a city) as the way you are going about it but my primary objective was to run the fog lights independently from the driving lights and I do very little city work so flashing is a now and then requirement rather than regular.

    Might be interesting for others who are considering different uses for their fog lights.
     
  7. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    4,790
    North Pole AK
    I've been wanting to do this for a long time. Hopefully I'll get to it this year. Do you have any more info you could share on how you did this? Also did you change the fog lights or put in LED bulbs to reduce power draw?
     
  8. au400i

    au400i Rookie

    Oct 26, 2018
    17
    I have mine running with standard H3 factory bulbs at the moment however I have ordered some LED bulbs but I'm yet to install them. It is very difficult to find LED bulbs to fit as the fog lamp has a metal lens inside which limits the bulb options. You also do not want a LED bulb with the end lens design as this will direct the light into this lens and not via the reflector. Worth taking your spot lights off and examining to understand what I'm referring to before ordering any bulbs.

    To get the fog lights to operate independently from the headlight switch I took a standard 12V automotive relay with an inbuilt 15A fuse and ran a new wire from an ignition switched power source (Fuse A or B) to the trigger of the relay. I then connected the relay power supply to a 12V source (Power supply side of fuses M to V) and ground to a local ground. The relay output in used in place of the headlight switched pink power supply to the fog light toggle switch. This way the fog lights have a supply whenever the ignition is on and can be used independently from the headlights. All of this can be achieved without modifying the factory wiring loom using push connectors on redundant terminals.

    As stated earlier the reason I did this is so that I can run my fog lights without switching my headlights on as running lights to increase visibility to other drivers. The reason to run the relay is that I can leave the switch on all of the time and when I switch the ignition off the fogs switch off so I don't run the battery flat by forgetting to turn the fog lights off manually. It might be also worth noting that my car is not running a rear foglight as this was the "visually challenging" series one version which a pervious owner must have removed some time ago. The fog light on warning light works as expected on the tachometer.

    If you have the correct wiring setup for headlight flashing as discussed at the start of this thread the fog light flashing via the headlight stalk with the headlights off will still work correctly and if you do not have that setup you can flash them by toggling the fog light switch whenever the ignition is on.
     
    Ak Jim likes this.

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