FML/Ferrari Classiche

Thank you. That was interesting.

Ultimately, I think the Classiche department suffers from a certain lack of credibility. For over fifty years Ferrari didn't particularly care about it's own historicity, and then in 2003 it reversed its position and announced that it was, after all, the authoritative keeper of historical accuracy. I believe that the company itself needs to have maintained an unbroken historic lineage with individual cars over time in order to be able to credibly make this claim.

I also think that there is some skepticism over the department's true intentions, as Beehl addresses. On the surface the department exists to certify the authenticity of a Ferrari. But to what end is Ferrari now in the business of determining the authenticity of old cars? Why, after fifty years, is this suddenly such a priority?

 

There's VERY big money in classic Ferrari's and the factory obviously wants a piece of that. They have been ignoring it for far too long. But the question indeed remains, on what grounds would the factory have the final say in whether or not a car is original or not? I mean, why would the word from the factory weigh in more than the word of Marcel Massini (just to name one) after careful examination of the car?

 

I agree with Jim they have the right man heading the program, an interview I read....(where?) quoted him as admitting the Factory had driven the old car customers away over the years and a total change in prespective was required to bring them back....

Of course it was Enzo himself who had absolutley no interest in "last year's racecars" and routinely ordered them sold, salvaged or scrapped........so it's hard to retrospectively castigate the employess for obeying orders....

And as arisen inmany cases they can only go by construction and modifications THEY performed, many times privateer temas virtually remanufactured the car (Penske, Donohue, et al.) and the Factory has no evidence to evaluate this....

I wish them well and think FNA should canvas all of it's archives and those of the old dealerships and welcome us back to the fold........they cannot even find me with a 'Rosso Ferrari' subscription, as I only own three 'old cars"......LOL!

 

In particular I'm missing the original info on #20405.....I have the Warranty Book on the other two.....

 

I think we are out of 308GTB pistons........

Sodium valves are getting brittle, too!

 

I spoke to FNA about getting a car certified. They e-mailed me back with the basic start up cost and also told me for an extra $1000. I could have a photo copy of the build sheet. Why would they charge so much for that simple piece of paper that they already would be working with during the certification process? It is one simple page. That is crazy.

 

That's a good point. I wonder what they would charge me for the non-existant build sheet for my 330 (sn 9453)?

 

it would be more approriate just to give it to you at the completion of the certification/restoration. It is not even the original document!

 

It IS sad that the basic Heritage Certificate has been superseeded, on newer cars where we are just trying to confirm colors and OEM options and frame it on the wall......

That part should be rethought, IMO.........Maybe Mr. G could mention that next time he lunches with Pierro and Luca.....

 

That would be the right thing to do. Not all owners of these cars are millionaires. A thousand bucks for a piece of paper is just stupid. They should want to supply it to the owner to keep with the records. Gee, with that extra thousand bucks I could spend the money more responsibly on a dozen restored Cheney clamps for example......

 

I recently heard that you will need Classiche Certification to run in the Ferrari Historic Challenge. Anyone else heard these rumors?
If this comes to pass, I guess my racing days in a vintage Ferrari are over before they start. Doubt that my car would ever get Certification. Sad

 

While i agree with the $1000 for a "photo copy of the build sheet" is quite expensive, i am guessing they are providing this option for the collectors that want a complete detailed history of their specific car. If a collector holds all original manuals, tools, etc. and anything else original to the certain car, the build sheet is just the cherry ontop. It is an option that makes their car even more complete imho.

I think its a wonderful option they are offering and just shows once again how Ferrari is always on the cutting edge with new ideas, products and keeping their loyal following even more involved.

 

I have considered sending one of my 212s to the factory for restoration, IMO it really needs a ground up. Thanks for posting your impressions.

 

I guess it depends where you are located.

 

If this is true, I think it is ill-concieved. Many, many of the vintage Ferrari competition cars do not have their original motors, or even have the right tipo of motor. Only 3 of the 8 series II 500 Mondials have their original motors. I know of one S.II Mondial that has probably been campainged as a vintage racer more than any other, but it has a 500 TRC motor. Would that car be banned from any further Shell Historics? It certainly could not get through Classiche in its current form. I do not believe that any of the surviving 625LMs retain their original 4-cylinder motors; they have had v-12s in them for decades. Would they also be ineligible to run? Or would their owners have to pony up 6 figures for a new, yet blessed, 4-cylinder motor that has not existed since the late 50s? Perhaps some sort of intermediate certification would be in order so that these cars could continue to run in the Historics if in fact this rumor is true.

As far as parts, we have sent at least two inquiries thru Classiche to the Ferrari UK folks who are handling the vintage spares and have either gotten shrugged shoulders or silence in reply.

 

thanks for the PM, Jim. Check your inbox. Have fun out West!
BP

 

Can someone kindly update me on the current differences between, and availablity of, Heritage and Classiche Certification? I lost track some time back when it seemed some of the programs were changed. I would like to have some level of certification and authentication of my car (330GTC) but I'm confused as to what's what.

Thank you.

Jack.

 

My favorite is that they are trying to make big bucks on the certification process. Rather than having a set fee, they wanted to charge based on the value of the car. Needless to say the owner of a 250 GTO declined to have his car certified.

I don't know what you consider reasonable costs for restoration, but on a 340MM, they refused to certify the car because the rear trailing arms had been replaced at some point in the past with adjustable length versions. They charged $20k for four new trailing arms. These are four tubes with a piece of tubing welded at each end with a bushing pressed into it, pretty simple. The car had a number of incorrect parts: modern electric fuel pump, different carburators, incorrect ignition coils, etc., but none of those items were even discovered during the cerification process.

 

If you go to the ferrari owners site you can request the heritage cert. by providing your engine,body and trans number. If everything is correct and you have the proper numbers they will send you a heritage cert. for free. A certification of the car requires much more info and photos showing that the car has not been modified. You will need to have a Factory authorized dealer involved to do the leg work. The application is pretty involved and asks for many photos. They really want a dealer to be in the loop, which is interesting because my local Ferrari dealer, which is company owned, can not do an oil change on my vintage car. Anyway, You can call Lucy Petrone at FNA to get more details. It basicly will cost about 3500 bucks or more,depending on the car.You will get a nice folder with the ceritificate and other info about on your car. The build sheet will cost extra. Kinda neat to have but for 3500 bucks you can take a nice vacation in Italy.

 

Thanks, Matt, for that information.

By the way, for $3500 I could take a nice trip to Italy, but the way my wife likes to travel it would be a rather short stay.....


Jack.

 

If I was paying attention 10 years ago, there were instances where build sheets didn't exist, have they now miraculously reappeared?

Ferrari's records don't even show the original color combo for my 308, do you think the old records are more complete?

 

Though I agree that the price is ridiculous it is actually three pages and ver informative. I'm still amazed at the cost for the whole thing. I agree that the certification is probably a good idea but the cost for most cars is way too high.
Morris

 

I don't know what they have for the 308 but I can tell you that for all 54 cars on the 275 tour they knew the original color combinations for each one. If you ever get a chance to see the book from the 275 tour it is very complete with original colors and informaiton on each car.
Morris