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360 For 360 owners with CS TCU flash, there's a catch

Discussion in '360/430' started by 24000rpm, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    I just found out something.

    On 3 of my 360s with CS tcu. All of them has the same problem: if you drive normally and want to have a sudden acceleration, u want to downshift and put down your gas pedal. And at soon as you put down y your foot, your clutch will slip for a second or 2 , before it grabs nicely.

    I don't think I have any setup issue on PIS or close clutch position or whatever. And my clutches aren't worn either.

    I was hypothesizing to solve this problem you need a CS ignition ecu flash as well to make torque transfer timing corrected. Just a guess.

    So i'll try to flash one of my 360s and see if that solves the problem.

    Try it yourself , my comrades, u'll be surprised.

    ------------------

    edit: i read a post a few months ago about this exact problem. But the article isn't mentioning any CS tcu flash. one of the poster said it has something to do with the clutch position sensor magnet getting old. I used to believe that. Until 10 minutes ago, I realized all of my 360s with CS tcu have this problem. That is a very improbable event for all 3 magnets to become old. But i'll try to flash the ignition ecu to find out.

    edit: also on upshifts, there's a noticeable engine up-revving during shifts , compared to Modenas with its factory-equipped TCU. That also has something to do with torque transferring I'd believe.
     
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  3. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    633
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Fascinating! I also have a flashed CS TCU, and I also have the downshift issue you describe. It is not THAT big a deal to me, I suppose, so I never posted. Doubt it is 4 bad old magnets!!!

    Please keep us updated!
    Kevin
     
    24000rpm likes this.
  4. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2005
    982
    Southeast Texas
    Full Name:
    Wally Hollar
    Interesting....my mechanic diagnosed that very same problem as a bad position indicator, and they were the ones that put the CS TCU in. Since I've got the modified CS maps from Mase, I'll have to try that when the great flood is over....
     
  5. CCRider66

    CCRider66 Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
    442
    Sussex, WI
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    Brian
    I'm having a similar problem only really noticeable up shifting from 3rd to 4th. I get a high rev. I planned on doing some diagnostics later to see if I can figure it out.
     
  6. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    edit: one of the 3x 360s mentioned has new clutch and pressure plate. So I'd eliminate a weak pressure plate issue.
    edit: Instead of flashing the ignition ecu, I can easily revert the CS flash back to TCU from factory and see if the problem go away. That'll be easier. I think i can get it done today. I just woke up ( @9:45am)
     
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  8. wbt

    wbt Karting

    Nov 28, 2014
    146
    New Zealand
    I have a '00 360 with CS TCU and have this exact same issue! Brand new clutch, sensor, magnet, pressure plate and throw out bearings have been installed (old clutch was shot). Mechanic suggested a sticky throw out bearing, but all other shifts are so crisp and pickup is so smooth it makes little sense.

    Only ever happens on a downshift 6 ->5 or 5->4 with light throttle moving to heavy. Feels like clutch slip for 1-2 seconds then it grabs. My solution is to back off throttle, downshift, pause, then apply gas. If someone can confirm an ECU re-flash solves this then our friend 360trev may be able to help out with a firmware mod (hopefully he picks up on this thread).

    This is a significant discovery. Well done.
     
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  9. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    so , it looks like, the CS tcu isn't really a plug and play thing, even if you have a sd2. LOL
     
  10. wbt

    wbt Karting

    Nov 28, 2014
    146
    New Zealand
    Not quite plug and play, but this is a very subtle problem that can be driven around. I suspect most owners don't even realise what is going on. The overall benefits from the CS TCU makes it a worthwhile upgrade.
     
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  11. FlyingHaggisRacing

    FlyingHaggisRacing Formula 3
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    Jul 2, 2013
    1,315
    I also agree with the description in #1

    I found if you lift off the throttle completely when doing the downshift and then reapply it seems to be a clean engagement.
    But if you have the throttle at 25%-50% and do a downshift, it often gets a bit confused and takes a few seconds to sort itself out.
    When it did happen it was very annoying.

    So an interesting mystery to investigate.
     
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  13. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    Mark
    Sounds like a factory calibration issue given a few of you have it.
     
  14. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    do you mean calibration of the CS TCU with SD2?


     
  15. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    No - I mean the actual software/programming/map that Ferrari wrote
     
  16. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    exactly. That's why I think a CS ignition ecu map would match the CS tcu.


     
  17. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    633
    Shorewood, MN
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    Kevin
    Interestingly enough, most of my issues seem to arise from 4th gear as well.

    Kevin
     
  18. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    OK, people. I carried my leonardo and my 2003 TCU with me when test driving in downtown of a prominent city of China at 4:00am. LOL

    Now it is confirmed that the following are the results of replacing the TCU of a Modena with a CS one.

    1. You'll get clutch slipping up to 3-4 seconds before it grabs if you downshift to accelerate, depending on such parameters as throttle input, gear engaged, how many gears downshifted.

    2. You'll get a slight higher RPM , compared to those with a factory equipped TCU, when upshifting with more than regular throttle input, say 40%.

    3. You'll get some degree of engine stalling when braking to a stop, depending on how fast the RPM drops before your speed becomes zero. In my case it never actually stalled the car, but almost. each and every time I brake hard to a red light stop.
     
  19. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    solution pending when trev would answer my messages, he's busy, u know.
    I'll flash the ECU with CS dump and see if that cures the problem. Like mwsteward said, I would guess it is a calibration and compatibility issue.
     
  20. eric355

    eric355 Formula Junior
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    Nov 30, 2005
    977
    Toulouse (France)
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    Eric DECOUX

    I don't think this can be taken for generality !!
    I have done more than 20000km in my (ex) 360 with a reflashed CS TCU without experiencing that. Never had points 1 and 3, the RPM surge of point 2 was similar between the CS TCU and the 2002 TCU.
     
  21. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    i'll shoot a video and you mimic the condition I am driving. So you can see for yourself.

    all three of my cars do this. Just tried.



     
  22. CCRider66

    CCRider66 Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
    442
    Sussex, WI
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    Brian
    Point 2 is what I get fairly often. My body already figured it out on it's own. I instinctively let off the throttle just a touch when shifting from 3 to 4 and I get no rev.

    This is one of the things I just LOVE about a Ferrari 360. They just don't drive like any other car. You have to learn her and admire her. She's one hot Italian! :)
    Not just anyone can go out with her. ;)
     
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  23. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    cc rider is a band back in the 70's , isn't it? usually rythm and blue?


     
  24. CCRider66

    CCRider66 Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
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    That, and a Song by Elvis Presley.:cool:

    It actually comes from a number of years ago I was doing Old west horseback riding and a competition called Cowboy Mounted Shooting. It's like barrel racing on steroids! One day I showed up with a bunch of new duds and the announcer gave me an Alias of CCRider for I didn't have a lot of money so I put all on my Credit Card. I was born in 1966.
     
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  25. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie
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    I flashed the igntion ecu with CS map, adjusted PIS. started the car, after a few minutes of idling, it overheats. The radiator is cold to touch. So i need to solve that first, then to test drive. I used to have this problem and I thought it was thermostat so i replaced it with a new one a few months ago. Seems not the case
     
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  26. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
    6,504
    Campbell, CA
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    John Zornes
    The thermostat is the high point. If you didn't use an airlift to fill the coolant you have to use the bleed screw on the top of the thermostat housing. If you don't, you get an airlock there and coolant doesn't circulate or does so poorly.
     
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  27. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    does doing this improve the shift speed of 360 and if so by how much?
     
  28. CCRider66

    CCRider66 Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
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    Brian
    Yes, in sport mode is where it's most noticed. The better part are the down shifts, especially on the track or high speeds and high rpms!
     

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