News

Found out dealer didn't disclose paint work

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Dansage, May 5, 2018.

  1. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2005
    3,171
    No I meant more from FNA's perspective. They really can't be seen to permit a stealership to destroy the credibility of the program, surely?
     
  2. anunakki

    anunakki Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 8, 2005
    46,138
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Ferrris credibility is already destroyed. This is the company tht says they are making 399 Enzos then proceeds to make significantly more, denying it the entire time.

    I dont see a Ferrari CPO as offering anything other than an extended warranty.

    In other words, Ferrari doesnt care about its reputation
     
    ///Mike and TheMayor like this.
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    64,415
    Vegas baby
    I imagine everyday there are thousands who complain about CPO’s from Mercedes, Lexus, etc. most of these are lease returns which a lot of people treat like rentals


    It’s called buyer beware.
     
    SAFE4NOW, anunakki and daytona355 like this.
  4. Meister

    Meister F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    4,777
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister

    If you are not keen enough to spot "paint work" when you buy it, it's your fault.
     
  5. TheDiffuser

    TheDiffuser Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
    291
    Full Name:
    The Diffuser
    What a crock of s*1t. What if a buyer doesn't spot suspension damage, or gearbox damage etc - and don't tell me that a PPI picks up everything, because we all know it doesn't.

    Yes buyers need to carry out as much due diligence as possible. But if an authorized Ferrari dealership knows about previous problems with a vehicle and doesn't disclose that to a buyer, that's p1ss poor.

    Rip off, dishonest, POS dealers, need to be held accountable for obfuscation, lying and ripping off customers.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    J.K.P, randkin, LitzDoc and 2 others like this.
  6. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2009
    9,431
    London
    Full Name:
    Sid Korshak
    Not every person that buys a car, even a ferrari, would necessarily know what to look for. Further, when you buy from a main dealer, or a specialist in a particular marque, you should be able to count on them being open and honest with you about the car they are selling.
     
  7. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    10,519
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    I disagree.

    The standard in many court cases is not whether a party was aware of a wrongdoing, but should have been aware.

    Matt
     
  8. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,989
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    I have a pretty good eye (and I always bring one of my detailing flashlights (that thing sees every imperfection), but good work can be hard to spot. I assume since that was not good work it was not done at one of the Ferrari authorized repair centers. When you have bought as many cars as I have you are bound to have a few problems, and lets face facts Ferrari is still a business (with shareholders) that sells products (cars but happen to be among those products). What happened to OP is terrible but I don't think that there is anything in Ferrari's (or Porsche's, MB's BMW ) that says the car cannot be in an accident only that it meets factory specs (so no aftermarket exhausts etc). I would not waste my breath contacting FNA, and as far as the dealer, in order to have a case against them, you will probably need to find the shop the work was done at, find out when it was done, since if the previous owner kept it from his insurance company he probably kept it from the dealer as well. Fraud can only be proved if you can prove the dealer knew it was in an accident (which they are not obligated to disclose) and then informed you in writing (if it is on the sales agreement, remember this for the future then you have them) that it was not. One thing for sure since the car would need to go trough their shop to get the CPO, they either have really bad techs, or they knew that at least the car had paintwork. My guess is they knew proving it and especially that they defrauded you (at least with only knowing what information you have given us here), will be a difficult thing to do. If I were defending the dealer on this one, I'd have it pretty easy. I am not by any means saying what they did was right (it was not) but making them pay for that, well that's another story. I'm curious you said panels were replaced how do you know this, could it be they were removed for painting.
     
  9. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2005
    3,171
    One of the biggest contributors to the downfall of society (and first clues to sociopathic tendencies) is lack of empathy for others. If there was a "dislike" button I'd use it for your lousy attitude.
     
  10. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2015
    3,882
    This sucks , if you cannot buy a $ 200K CPO Ferrari through a Ferrari dealer with total confidence ..something is very very wrong.
     
  11. Dansage

    Dansage Karting
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 6, 2018
    83
    Correct me if I'm wrong but Ferrari doesn't run typical closed end leases like Merc, BMW, Lexus, etc right?I realize those leased cars are typically daily drivers and as such quite beaten up but I always equated Ferrari's as being taken care of short of the one's abused in rental fleets.

    Sorry, I'm not a painter nor an expert in what to look for. Simply speaking I got swept up in a first time Ferrari purchase. It's most likely a symptom of my age but I trusted a dealer wouldn't screw me on a car that's cpo'd and cost $200k. That being said I've learned from my mistake. The more I think about it, I don't really care if they take the car back or if I get a pennys worth of relief I'd just rather help others not get screwed by them. I'd prefer I get screwed while being able to afford the write off of such a thing then someone else who really stretches to buy a Ferrari and can't afford to just sweep a massive value write down to the side and forget about it.
     
    sidtx, JerseyBland, bromo and 8 others like this.
  12. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2009
    9,431
    London
    Full Name:
    Sid Korshak
    Measured response, well done mate, karma will repay yo7 along the way, Just wait and see. Enjoy the 488!
     
  13. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2008
    504
    East Coast
    How many miles did you put on the car between the time you bought it and the time you went to get them to buy it back?
     
  14. LitzDoc

    LitzDoc Rookie

    Feb 10, 2018
    26
    Amazing. You’re on tough customer. That’s awesome. Thanks for posting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    daytona355 likes this.
  15. LitzDoc

    LitzDoc Rookie

    Feb 10, 2018
    26
    Wow. Yours are a good guy. The world needs more people like you.
    Thanks.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2015
    780
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Not so sure that matters, the dealership is a "Ferrari expert" and even if they "didn't know" they should have known as they likely have a higher standard of care since they are CPOing the vehicle as a Ferrari dealer. I am not an attorney but have been involved in many law suits on behalf of my clients as their insurance broker so I do have some experience in the area, they may be precluded from using the "I didn't know defense".
     
  17. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2015
    780
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    ^
    This
     
    daytona355 likes this.
  18. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,989
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    I think you are missing the point here, they did not have to inform him about the paintwork or the damage, and it is correct as far as CPO, the car just needs to meet factory spec (just like Porsche, BMW, MB), so you can only prove there was intent if it states in writing that the car never had paint work or prior damage. Unless there is more to the story than has been told on here, than as I said you will not have a very good chance of getting anywhere. The only wrongdoing so speak is if they put something in writing that was false, and as I said earlier if it is on the sales contract that the car was never in an accident or had paintwork done. You are assuming the right thing to do and what is legal are the same thing, unfortunately they are not.
     
  19. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2005
    3,171
    I think you missed where the OP said that he specifically asked if the car had any work done to it.
     
  20. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,989
    Gladwyne PA
    Full Name:
    Morrie
    Like I said, in trying to take the dealer to court that means nothing, the dealer would simply deny it. It would need to be in writing, I know because I've had a similar issue (with a CPO'd car) and like his car it had a clean carfax.
     
  21. randkin

    randkin Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2015
    780
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Carnut, I think the dealer’s disclosure required varies state by state. I don't believe there is federal law on this issue. In CA the sales contract I have most recently signed requires mandatory arbitration. I personally have never seen any arbitration situation where one party gets a “take nothing”. But then my experience is limited to CA which is a state that leans way to the side of the consumer.
     
  22. njcycleguy

    njcycleguy Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2008
    504
    East Coast
    Wide World is a stand up dealer, and for their reputation to be tarnished by what appears to be a half-baked story just isn't right. I do not work for the dealer but I do buy my cars from them and I know most of the guys there pretty well. Something just doesn't seem to add up with his story.
     
  23. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Rookie
    Regional Sponsor Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2009
    2,980
    Bear Creek, Ca.
    Full Name:
    Mark Jones
    Perhaps they could post their side of this?

    At this point, I don’t think anyone would avoid the dealer due to this thread.
     
  24. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2009
    9,431
    London
    Full Name:
    Sid Korshak
    I don’t see why they would, getting into a bun fight on an Internet forum is hardly good business. They are wise to keep their own counsel, and hopefully reach out privately to Dan to try to sort the mess out, he’s a stand up chap, so I’m sure it wouldn’t take much to have him back as a very good future customer if they address the issues honestly
     
    TheDiffuser likes this.
  25. Dansage

    Dansage Karting
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 6, 2018
    83
    They were always very nice to me until things went south. Completely excluding what happened after I found out about the damage everyone there was absolutely amazing to me. As you might agree judging things before having both good and bad experiences with a dealer is a hard thing to do as things will always be smiles and pleasantries until it's a dealer needing to cough up money.

    Also I previously said the sales guy and all the service guys are great and I do respect them, my issue is with the GM and only the GM. I do really think my salesperson did not know about the cars issues as from what I pieced together the previous owner was a friend of the GM based on how vehemently he defended the guy at the first thought of me questioning him. On top of this it's not like their body shop even denied doing work on the car when the GM wasn't there to tell them not to acknowledge it.

    Others here have stated I'm not the first to have issues with the dealer and they're known for one time customers and not turning that into repeat business. Lastly, as you may find from some googling their BMW franchise has had multiple instances of selling cars with undisclosed damage so it is not unheard of.

    I don't plan on going after them at this point as I stated earlier, I just want to simply educate others that they should be more careful. I'm not important to a Ferrari dealer by any means I just don't like being talked down to when I try to take an honest approach to rectifying a problem. It's not about money it's about transparency and honesty.
     

Share This Page