From Rennlist - GT3 dyno numbers

Ferrari does the same thing. I'd rather trust Ferrari than the dyno.

 

But porsche advertises the minimum amount of power their engine will produce, whereas ferrari advertises the maximum amount of power; as in, the porshce #'s are a minimum requirment, and the ferrari #'s are the maximum possible.

 

Those are very impressive numbers. Kudos to Porsche for once again creating a great car with a great engine. In fact, when you think about it, the GT3 is putting down more power the a stock 996tt without the X50 package due to the 996tt's AWD!! It will be interesting to see how other 360CS dyno out. Maybe this was CS was a little weaker then the average.

As far as Z06 dyno numbers go, I beleive a stock Z06 puts down about 320rwhp. The Z06 is an amazing car when it comes to true performance and I think it is definately capable of doing a low 12 quarter mile.

 

Ferrari was way out in front for many years and could get away with the "myth" and adding to the myth...it was harmless fun.

Now that everybody else has caught up in the HP war and slightly passed Ferrari this long standing practice is going to bite them in the ass.

 

I agree: great job on that GT3 by Porsche. About these dyno results, though, is the HP that important? Personally, I think that those numbers are all kind of low, considering what the cars weigh. For me, it gets worse with real life sensations or the "seat of the pants dyno" that we all refer to from tume to time. Seriously, I am pretty speed numb when it comes to cars. Nothing feels *that* fast. I blame it on spending so much time on the track with those high hp superbikes.

So if acceleration doesn't impress me with cars, what does? Balance and responsiveness are big but all around feel is bigger. Should the guys who bought a CS that only get 330 hp be pissed? Sure. Is it that big of a deal? No. Power is such a small part of the package yet everyone makes such a big deal out of it. Does that mean I want to tuttle around in a 90 hp Metro? Of course not but once you have enough HP, I think 300 or so, then the balance and feel are what're important. It's not like if we go to the drag strip or anything. None of these cars are made for that. Besides, if we really were so hp-phyllic then we wouldn't have cars, we'd all have things like bikes. Like these:www.ecossemoto.com, or like what's on my profile page.

So while it's cool to check out HP, it's kind of crappy to relate those numbers to real world fun and exhilaration.

 

Yep I 200% think so because he paid for 380 something (I think) not 330 hp. I agree with everything else you said but if I bought brand new Ferrari and my motor was a lemon I would be fuming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This does happen but should not happen with a factory dyno'ed $200,000 car. They should pull the motor down and find the lost HP and try again, not flip it on to an unlucky customer.

Mark(study) is right, Italians have always BS'ed hp numbers but it is going to be embarrassing when you get passed by a sales rep in their company 4 cylinder Civic ... again this is the LACK of quality control that Italians are famous for. Beautiful stuff put together so poorly it is criminal ... too much red wine and pasta and hand waving!

Pete

 

Dropping 200k on a car, and getting sold a lie is a rip off. If i'm told that a car has 425 crank hp, and it turns out to have 380 that's BULL****. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with anything else; nothing about the car makes up for the fact that the Co. misrepresented their product, and if they did so simply b/c "they think they can" then that's an even larger insult.

 

i am totally let down by the cs. this was my favorite dream car fantasy and now its as if i caught my girlfriend cheating. the old line about ferraris for looking and listening to while porsches are for driving still seems correct. f is going to be in big trouble if this continues b/c the competition is now too fierce. i would like to see the new lotus compared to the cs on that same car and driver track now. i bet toyota has accurate hp figures. im disgusted!

 

I find it funny, how so many people will make excuses for the car. If it were a Lamborghini.... wowwwwww watch out! You guys would be on it like stink on ****! lol

Or even if it was the Porsche, same scenario.

 

I dont find this surprising at all. Its just the same old thing we have seen for the last 30 years.

Cavallino..... You say the Ferrari and Vette's are being driven by the amateur guys and the Porsches by the pros.... and thus its the driver and not the car that is the cause of the better lap times for the p-car? Ask youself this: Why are the pro type guys all driving the Porsche? Its just like Derek Bell always said: If you want to win, you drive for Porsche. Not just because the cars are fast, but because you know they will always be fast at the end of the race and not just the beginning.

If your looking to buy a street legal car that offer the ultimate in power, engineering excellence, and outright performance as measured in lap times around a racetrack.... there is really only one smart choice. Buy the Porsche. Period.

If you want something unique, gorgeous, exotic, rare, and still offering performance better than 99% of the cars on the road, but a Ferrari or Lambo. Just dont expect to win many races against a comperable model Porsche!

Terry

 

Don't be silly! You don't know that, and you have no proof of it. Chassis Dyno numbers seriously mean NOTHING. The Porsches I've tested and the Ferraris I've tested have all had exactly what Ferrari claimed in the owner's manual. Weight was spot on as well.

 

Rob, thats amazing!

Terry, I wouldn't say 99%... that implies that Ferrari's are better than practically everything from a sheer performance point of view and its just not true. Quite the opposite.

Allan, of course they would. However, how do you really get a baseline from such a limited production run?

For all the talk on being down on power, it would be tolerable with a few modifications or TSB's, however its heavier around the midsection.

The Stradale is the Ferrari blind date. Looks great in pictures and is supposed to have "great personality," but when you get up close, you found out that neither are 100% accurate, she gained a few pounds and acts different than on the phone.

Good luck to those who have interest ($$$) tied up in the CS to get it sorted out.

Sunny

 

Where do you find this link Rob?

 

LOL! Coming from the guy saying modded 355's make 260rwhp, you should really be happy with Ferrari and stand behind them, because somewhere along the way, Ferrari lost 115 of your hp!

 

Chassis dyno's meaningless? If MY chassis dyno data is meaningless... how can you possibly use it to your benefit by validating the claims made by ferrari / porsche in your experience???? And, we have , realtime examples of 1. an overrated ferrari (see 360cs thread), and an underated (but overperforming) porsche. if you're entirely refuting the utility of chassis dynos, you're being ridiculous.

 

That would explain my smile tonight. Coming home on the highway i join the quickest group and follow. One is a brand new mustang gt. (i like them as it was my first car and lots of fun) We drive along at a nice pace and as i had hoped we got to the tolls together and found 2 empty booths next to each other. As i pull thru i look over and he nails it. I follow and steadily (and quickly)overtake with my open window feet from his engine as i pass. I could hear the iron in that thing straining. I gain a good lead before traffic halts the fun. My cars forte was never 0-60 but 20 years later it still has it! GT 5.7 published and driver was good and a class act. I was surprised and pleased.
T 928s2

 

No way! His 355 just has a 40% loss to the rear wheels! lol

 

Man you can be ******! Yes...on the dyno *I* used, that was the number. So what? All 3 cars had the same...it means NOTHING apart from comparison purposes. You should try to put a post in context instead of picking out the bits that suit you, don't you think?

 

I have both a 2002 Z06 and a 2004 GT3 and thought I'd chime in.

I've dyno'd my stock Z06 and it made 353.5 RW HP and 342.3 TQ. From conversations with other owners these are the numbers that stock 2002+ Z06's regularly make. A Z06 making only 320 RW HP was either a 2001 model or was not running right.

It wouldn't surprise me if the GT3 was making 348 RW HP as stock. Porsche is likely sandbagging the GT3 power numbers so as not to get too close to the 996TT at 420HP. The GT3 pulls very strong and unlike my 360 that got to redline in a flash, the GT3 stays in the rev band for an enjoyably long time.

I'm not sure if a 15% power loss factor is accurate or not, but it is a reasonable proxy. Using that factor the calculation to estimate the GT3's HP at the crank is 348/.85 (not 348 x 1.15), which yields a power output of 409 HP. Based on my experience this is not unrealistic.

Fun to compare and contrast all these great cars.

 

Oh my god...what is wrong with some of you guys? The NUMBER you get out of a chassis dyno is meaningless unless you have an engine that you've had on an engine dyno and THEN put it on a chassis dyno for comparison purposes to know what the number on the chassis dyno means. Get it? If it's too complex, let me know, and I'll type more slowly. Having done the above comparison, I've tested Porsches and Ferraris and been able to determine reasonably accurate flywheel figures. Get it now? To just say X car has Y rwhp on a dyno means NOTHING. I'd like to see a properly running GT3 and a Stradale on the same dyno on the same day and with the same operator before I'd be making any assertions about what has more or less and which is making accurate claims etc.

I will say it again for the people who are just a little slow.....once comparable numbers on engine/chassis dynos have been established, I've seen nothing that would indicate that the Ferraris or Porsches I've seen tested have any more or less HP than what is claimed in the owner's manual. Ferrari wise, this includes 308GTB, testarossa, 512BB, F40 and 355s.

 

These cars are all great, for various different reasons. GT3s are awesome, I would love to have one someday!

I have a Z06 and a drive a Modena regularly (been in my garage the past month), two totally different cars. I prefer the Modena, but it cost a little bit more!

At the end of the day for me, it's enjoyment, not ultimate numbers. I put a Borla exhaust (Stingers) on the Vette and it made it feel twice as fast. I'm waiting to get the '04 shocks and stiffer sway bars on (hopefully soon) because for me, as great as that car is for the price, it just feels a bit floaty through the turns, and bumps freak it out way too much.

The 360 has a Capristo exhaust and sounds out of control, and at redline, I don't care how much power it is getting, it can haul ass, it handles great, and that sound! It is an intense car and I feel electric every time I step out of it. No complaints!

I just got a chance to drive a Gallardo, and it is much different than the 360 in feel, in some ways halfway between a 911 TT (4wd) and the 360 - it is an awesome car, only thing I would change is the exhaust to get a little more noise, but I was seriously impressed. I also think the Gallardo looks awesome in the flesh, and a cool balance of smoothness and radical insanity.

I do understand the comments people have made about the CS being down on power (both in the manual and on the dyno), but I'd have to drive one before I told you I was disappointed or not. I sat in one, and it was pretty awesome just to be in.

And check this out - someone who is a killer driver on the drag strip ran in the 11s on a totally stock Z06

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=692065

Like I said, I love them all!

 

It's been this way since the '60s. I've always wondered what amazing things you might find in Porsche's dumpsters!

-Wayne

 

Nice post modenaboy - it's nice to have someone that can speak with authority about many of the cars being discussed. Your comment about the Vette in the corners is revealing, but it's nice to know you can mod that problem away

 

On the dyno this example of Ferrari CS looks bad and the GT3 looks good. On the track with another CS and another GT3 the track also shows that the higher stated 420 HP Ferrari CS lost to the GT3 which has less HP?

Aircon.... you have to admit that this has been tested two ways not just one. The Dyno says the car is weak, you say the Dyno is the problem or maybe the car. Fine. But on the track with another set of cars.... the track says something is wrong with the Ferrari CS also?

The dyno proceedure and the track are both wrong on two sets of cars?