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355 Front Brake Line Option that Removes the Caliper Hardline?

Discussion in '348/355' started by AutoFanaticF355, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    I just got my custom set of Gooridge lines from the UK which took forever because i ordered them in a vintage black look so they resemble the OEM. Of course the photos you see online led me to believe the front lines would eliminate the poorly bent front caliper hardline by replacing it with a longer flex line and banjo bolt. Well thats not the case as those are file photos used to represent this kit.

    Has anyone here eliminated the front brake caliper hard line and what part number did you use to do so? I am also thinking of making new hard lines from stainless because I have all the proper flares and fittings in my shop and I know I can bend and make it look 100% better than the factory did originally. The factory hard line looks horrible how they bent it on almost every 348 and 355 ive seen over the years. I would like to make this better for my own sake.

    Has anyone remedied this?
     
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  3. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I have never heard of that in all the years I have been on here.
    You need to do that and document for everyone.
    Will likely look nicer
     
  4. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    it will also make rotor and pad changing much easier, it can be done with a proper banjo bolt and longer braided custom line its just a matter of me finding out what the thread pitch and size is going into the front calipers if anyone knows please post up it will make it easier for all.
     
  5. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    Hi Phillip

    I have done this exact job and ended up making my own replacement.

    Everything you ever wanted to know is here:

    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=754467#post754467

    BTW Make sure that you've bought the full stainless steel ones as they do a version which is a mix of stainless and ordinary steel and they rust! :-( Dont know why that option - stupid idea IMO.

    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=753644#post753644
     
  6. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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  8. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    I see you made a new hardline for the front calipers i was considering doing this as well since i have all the pro equipment to make lines in my shop. Did you eventually eliminate the front hard line up front with a longer Goodridge line with banjo bolt? i could not that that in the above threads
     
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  9. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    I didn't no - since I've made a hardline out of better materials it should come apart ok if needed - saying that I fitted a new/old stock caliper so hopefully that wont need to be done for a very long time :)

    Bit of silly design to honest and surprised it doesn't get more mentions when people replace the discs etc
     
  10. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    Can you tell me the size of the fittings you used to make the new hardline and the tubing size? It appears to be 3/16 tubing which i have spools of stainless in my shop and a spool of the nickel copper stuff you used.
     
  11. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    Rather than just get plain copper and steel fitings I went for the copper/nickel pipe and solid brass fittings so hopefully no corrosion issues in future! Pipe is 3/16 Diameter and fittings are Male 3/8 x 24 UNF

    In the thread with a pic:

    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=754676#post754676

    BTW the fitting passes through a bracket that can be detacjhed from the bcak of bearing cover which may hekp with movement???

    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=754913#post754913

    I had to cut my hardpipe in 2 to disassemble as the problem was that the fitting would come out the back of the caliper. Anyway with teh better materials it shouldnt be a problem with future.
     
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  13. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    The thread size of the piping fittings, caliper sockets etc. on the 348/355 is M10 x 1.0. 3/8 x 24 UNF male will screw into an M10 x 1.0 female (the pitch is close enough) but it will be rather loose. The diameter of M10 x 1.0 male measures 9.88 mm whereas 3/8 x 24 measures 9.4 mm. I wouldn't use 3/8 x 24 UNF. Easy to get M10 x 1.0 fittings, examples:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Male-Tube-Nut-Inverted-Flare-Fitting-5PC-Kit-Edelmann-121050-3-16-M10-x-1-0-IF/352577002811?epid=22028418821&hash=item52173a1d3b:g:qpAAAOSwe3tfY5dX

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/10mm-X-1-0-Inverted-Flare-Tube-Nut-Fitting-3-16-Brake-Line-Tubing-10pcs/224158305305?hash=item3430e04c19:g:2SsAAOSwNqBfYUVz
     
  14. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    As to the replacement of metal pipe+hose with a longer s/s braided hose, it would probably be fine but it may cause slightly more "spongy" brakes as the hoses "balloon" and metal pipes do not. The shorter brake hoses the better.
     
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  15. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    I'm a bit confused now as I just read further down my thread nd it shows me confirming that the thread is a 1mm pitch??!! LOL Oh dear I cant quite remember - I've got a vague memory that I tried 2 different pitch sizes and one fitted better than the other so I think the ones I ended up using are in fact 1mm - apologies!

    Pic of me confirming thread is 1mm
    https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=755277#post755277

    Anyway I've just been in the garage to double check the original against the bras ones I fited and they both fit fine. Whist I was thee I thought it would be useful to straighten out my old hard pipe to measure it abnd it's approx 255mm allowing for a few crinkles in my pipe. Hope that helps.

    One little tip I would suggest is if the nipples etc are in the state mine were in and your deffo going to replace the pipe just hacksaw through the end near the nipple then you cab preserve teh shape to make the new one - IIRC I had to bend mine to get it all removed so I had to guess the shape of the pipe when making the replacement

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  16. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic Formula 3
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    The pitch of the M10 x 1.0 Ferrari metric brake fitting is 1.000 mm and the pitch of 3/8-24 is 1.058 mm so it is quite difficult to see the difference when using a pitch gauge. It is the difference in diameters of the two threads that is the main issue. I suggest that you measure the diameter over the threads of the brass fittings you used. If ~ 9.88 mm, they are correct (M10); if ~ 9.4 mm, they are 3/8" and it is risky to use them, especially since they are brass.
     
  17. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Make them Im in for any new stainless lines. I know folks like Cunifer tubing also

    I uses to get them made by a company called stainlessbrakes about 30 years ago Im sure they are long gone
     
  18. m.stojanovic

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  19. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    thanks so much for posting the fittings size for all of us to know, I just ordered the M10X1.0 MM stainless banjo bolts. I will take some measurements tomorrow and order up the longer front lines this will make a much cleaner install and for servicing purposes.
     
  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    If you replace the hard lines with flex and banjo bolts won't this surface have to be machined flat and square with the bolt hold? Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    I do not think so since most monoblock style calipers use banjo bolts in the aftermarket with similar caliper castings, the banjo bolts use two copper sealing washers and I am sure this would suffice and tolerance of the surface. I guess il be the first to know soon enough but it does not worry me
     
  22. m.stojanovic

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  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Good point Miro. They likely machine the surface prior to drilling the ports and taping the hole for the fitting. But I sure wouldn't expect a copper washer to seal against a sand cast surface.
     
  24. 348Jeff

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    #21 348Jeff, Nov 2, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
    I've been thinking about this and wondering why Ferrari didnt do this themselves and it suddenly dawned on me....

    On the rear the caliper stays in a fixed place and only moves vertically up and down with the suspension. as you go over bumps etc. which is why you need the pipework to have a flexible piece rather than all hard pipe.

    However, on the front, not only does it move up and down it also swings in an arc following the wheel in and out as the car is steered. The idea of the had pipe is take the joining point of the flexible hose from being near the outside of the wheel (with a large arc) to near the centre of the wheel (with a tiny arc of movement). Arrowed in green.

    If you join a longer flexi hose direct to back of the caliper (the blue line I'm showing) then you'll have to make it long enough to stretch to when the wheel is turned to its full lock outwards, but if you that when it's on its full lock inwards the pipe will buckle up big time an may foul on the suspension. You need to connect to near the centre of the wheel as possible. I'm not sure what your going to do is a good idea. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong! LOL but I think there was method in their madness
     

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  25. AutoFanaticF355

    AutoFanaticF355 Karting

    Aug 13, 2020
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    it can be done ive been building custom cars for a very long time and we do this all the time with custom big brake kits, the key is you need to have the proper length through full arc and the proper style banjo to keep the line away from moving parts and the backside of the wheel and tire. If i do this on my F355 i will document the entire process in a thread and video on my YOUtube channel for anyone to see. right now i am trying to get in touch with Goodridge to see if they can make me a custom set of lines for the font to match the ones they made for my rear already. Now with UK being shut down this project is on the back burner until i hear from them.
     

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