355 Front Brake Line Option that Removes the Caliper Hardline?

I have never heard of that in all the years I have been on here.
You need to do that and document for everyone.
Will likely look nicer

 

Hi Phillip

I have done this exact job and ended up making my own replacement.

Everything you ever wanted to know is here:

https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=754467#post754467

BTW Make sure that you've bought the full stainless steel ones as they do a version which is a mix of stainless and ordinary steel and they rust! :-( Dont know why that option - stupid idea IMO.

https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=753644#post753644

 

Here's my home made hard pipe for the RHS made of copper and nickel pipe and brass fittings so no corrosion

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I didn't no - since I've made a hardline out of better materials it should come apart ok if needed - saying that I fitted a new/old stock caliper so hopefully that wont need to be done for a very long time

Bit of silly design to honest and surprised it doesn't get more mentions when people replace the discs etc

 

Rather than just get plain copper and steel fitings I went for the copper/nickel pipe and solid brass fittings so hopefully no corrosion issues in future! Pipe is 3/16 Diameter and fittings are Male 3/8 x 24 UNF

In the thread with a pic:

https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=754676#post754676

BTW the fitting passes through a bracket that can be detacjhed from the bcak of bearing cover which may hekp with movement???

https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=754913#post754913

I had to cut my hardpipe in 2 to disassemble as the problem was that the fitting would come out the back of the caliper. Anyway with teh better materials it shouldnt be a problem with future.

 

The thread size of the piping fittings, caliper sockets etc. on the 348/355 is M10 x 1.0. 3/8 x 24 UNF male will screw into an M10 x 1.0 female (the pitch is close enough) but it will be rather loose. The diameter of M10 x 1.0 male measures 9.88 mm whereas 3/8 x 24 measures 9.4 mm. I wouldn't use 3/8 x 24 UNF. Easy to get M10 x 1.0 fittings, examples:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Male-Tube-Nut-Inverted-Flare-Fitting-5PC-Kit-Edelmann-121050-3-16-M10-x-1-0-IF/352577002811?epid=22028418821&hash=item52173a1d3b:g:qpAAAOSwe3tfY5dX

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10mm-X-1-0-Inverted-Flare-Tube-Nut-Fitting-3-16-Brake-Line-Tubing-10pcs/224158305305?hash=item3430e04c19:g:2SsAAOSwNqBfYUVz

 

As to the replacement of metal pipe+hose with a longer s/s braided hose, it would probably be fine but it may cause slightly more "spongy" brakes as the hoses "balloon" and metal pipes do not. The shorter brake hoses the better.

 

I'm a bit confused now as I just read further down my thread nd it shows me confirming that the thread is a 1mm pitch??!! LOL Oh dear I cant quite remember - I've got a vague memory that I tried 2 different pitch sizes and one fitted better than the other so I think the ones I ended up using are in fact 1mm - apologies!

Pic of me confirming thread is 1mm
https://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?45388-348-DIY-quot-Restoration-quot&p=755277#post755277

Anyway I've just been in the garage to double check the original against the bras ones I fited and they both fit fine. Whist I was thee I thought it would be useful to straighten out my old hard pipe to measure it abnd it's approx 255mm allowing for a few crinkles in my pipe. Hope that helps.

One little tip I would suggest is if the nipples etc are in the state mine were in and your deffo going to replace the pipe just hacksaw through the end near the nipple then you cab preserve teh shape to make the new one - IIRC I had to bend mine to get it all removed so I had to guess the shape of the pipe when making the replacement

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The pitch of the M10 x 1.0 Ferrari metric brake fitting is 1.000 mm and the pitch of 3/8-24 is 1.058 mm so it is quite difficult to see the difference when using a pitch gauge. It is the difference in diameters of the two threads that is the main issue. I suggest that you measure the diameter over the threads of the brass fittings you used. If ~ 9.88 mm, they are correct (M10); if ~ 9.4 mm, they are 3/8" and it is risky to use them, especially since they are brass.

 

Make them Im in for any new stainless lines. I know folks like Cunifer tubing also

I uses to get them made by a company called stainlessbrakes about 30 years ago Im sure they are long gone

 

If anyone wishes to replace the hose+pipe with hose only, this company seems to have many choices (lengths and banjo angles) of M10 x 1.0 female - 10mm banjo brake hoses:
https://www.paragonperformance.com/Banjo-Fitting-DOT-Hose (scroll down for DOT and Toyota hoses). They also have banjo bolts: https://www.paragonperformance.com/Automotive?p=Fluid-Bolts.

Extract from their website:
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If you replace the hard lines with flex and banjo bolts won't this surface have to be machined flat and square with the bolt hold? Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I can see that the ports (on my spare Ate calipers) are already factory machined for banjos. Brembos even more so, I think. It's just a matter of removing the paint if oversprayed.

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Good point Miro. They likely machine the surface prior to drilling the ports and taping the hole for the fitting. But I sure wouldn't expect a copper washer to seal against a sand cast surface.

 

I've been thinking about this and wondering why Ferrari didnt do this themselves and it suddenly dawned on me....

On the rear the caliper stays in a fixed place and only moves vertically up and down with the suspension. as you go over bumps etc. which is why you need the pipework to have a flexible piece rather than all hard pipe.

However, on the front, not only does it move up and down it also swings in an arc following the wheel in and out as the car is steered. The idea of the had pipe is take the joining point of the flexible hose from being near the outside of the wheel (with a large arc) to near the centre of the wheel (with a tiny arc of movement). Arrowed in green.

If you join a longer flexi hose direct to back of the caliper (the blue line I'm showing) then you'll have to make it long enough to stretch to when the wheel is turned to its full lock outwards, but if you that when it's on its full lock inwards the pipe will buckle up big time an may foul on the suspension. You need to connect to near the centre of the wheel as possible. I'm not sure what your going to do is a good idea. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong! LOL but I think there was method in their madness