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Fuel dripping from Daytona Carb Banjo bolts

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by bighitter2, Jul 5, 2020.

  1. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    I just had my fuel system gone thru; all soft lines from tanks to carbs, new Yellow fuel hose in trunk, new fuel pumps, Carb accelerator Pumps, and new brass crush washers where the banjo bolts connect to the carbs...got the car home and one of the Banjo bolts is dripping gas on start up but once car heats up it stops, does anyone have have any tips on addressing this? I have carefully tightened when it is cold but is pretty tight and i do not want to strip the carb...Can i take just that one banjo bolt out and Replace crush washer or maybe a fiber washer? Or is this going to be an ordeal Where i have to take all 6 out and start over..any sealer that can be used or do the bolts/ crush washers go in dry? Thanks for any insights Before i tear into this..Chuck
     
  2. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
    1,283
    A thin coat of Locktite 518 on each side of the copper or fiber washer, no more leaks. Oil the threads of the banjo bolt before you insert it into the carb top. Be careful and do not overtighten the bolt, let the 518 do the work. This product is amazing, best thing since chocolate milk.
     
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  3. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Install new copper crush washers or heat up the old (hopefully copper and not brass) washers with a gas torch to soften them again and re-install. Torque the new soft washers in one go. No need for chemical seals to fix leaks in fuel systems.

    Best, Peter
     
  4. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula Junior

    Sep 11, 2009
    925
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Ted
    In theory, old crush gaskets can be annealed and re-used...in practice, it's just not worth saving the few pennies. Often, a shoulder or other odd-crush will mis-shapen the crush ring. Softening it alone will not remove these features. Dressing the ring can remove the features, but has other risks (lack of parallelism, etc.).

    Aluminum and copper crush gaskets are readily available and don't cost very much.
     
  5. 1monza

    1monza Karting
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    Jan 11, 2005
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    Manhattan Beach, CA
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    Norbert Hofer
    On carburator fuel logs only use the proper Weber fiber washers. You should not use copper washers.
     
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  6. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Thanks everyone for the help, seems to be some different views on this, i have already tried new copper washers to no sva
    thanks DWR 46 i will be doing that this weekend, can i pull out just one banjo bolt and slip new copper washers in or do i have to pull all 6 to fix the leaking One ?
     
  7. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
    1,283
    Chuck:

    1. The cars originally had the fiber washers, but you can use either. You can reuse the old copper washers, just sand them smooth with some 400 grit paper on a piece of glass.

    2. You can try to remove only the leaking washers and hope you can get enough room to slide the Locktite coated washers back in place.

    3. if you cannot slide the coated washers back in place, just take them all off, sand them smooth, and put the thin film of 518 on both sides of each one and reinstall. Then you know you are good to go.

    4. Just to be safe, I would let the 518 cure for at least one hour before pressurizing the fuel system. While we have turned on the pumps immediately and never had a leak, why take the chance if you are not in a hurry.
     
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  8. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Some Damn good advise thank you DWR46! already ordered the loctite on Amazon, you know what I’ll be doing this week end :) Then a long drive...
     
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  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,249
    southwest germany
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    romano schwabel
    soo much work for a not even a 5 cent part?

    I never would use some loctite at a fuel pipe. the fibre washers are still more than ok, but always use new ones, never the old/used ones.
     
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  10. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 23, 2007
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    I used cooper washers after having the same problem, re-tighten them after the engine is hot, that was when my fiber washes leaked.
     
  11. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    Timo
    #11 TTR, Jul 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
    Romano, thanks to Dyke and another "old guard" mentor of mine, I have been a convert for using "518" on fuel system connectors and fittings for awhile now and very recently (within last few weeks) had an opportunity to do a small "scientific" comparison test on 2 of the Daytonas currently in my shop.

    I rebuilt all 6 carburetors on both cars, had their bodies, tops & accelerator pump covers professionally (fixture) straightened/squared and after assembling/installing both sets, I made specific effort (for testing purposes) to assemble both set fuel rails using all new fibre washers, but one set with and the other set without "518".
    I also tried to apply (approximately) same amount of torque (by hand, without torque wrench) on all their banjo bolts and then let both sets sit overnight before introducing fuel to them.

    The set with "518" did not leak, while the set without ended up with few "moist" fittings, but upon disconnecting all 6 of that set, applying "518" (with new fibre washers again), tigthening to (approximately) same and letting them set for 2-3 hours before introducing fuel, no more drips or leaks.

    P.S. And yes, I wouldn't use just any or "some loctite" on fuel connectors either, but this "518" works, doesn't dissolve in contact with gasoline and as Dyke said, only very thin layer is needed (recommended).

    P.P.S. I've been successful in the past without it, including when using (soft) copper sealing washers, but...
     
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  12. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Thank Timo for chiming in , i have the “518” and will be pulling fuel rail off and reassembling with “518” will let all know the results,Chuck
     
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  13. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2003
    3,727
    early number euro car?
     
  14. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    12883 bought it in 1999
     
  15. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    your engine has the oil filler cap? on the cam cover which was discontinued.
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,249
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    romano schwabel
    when I see this aluminum seal ring I must say that this has been damaged because of an assembling error. tighten it before the seal ring had been centered.
    remember, those sealing rings have to be metric, not inch sizes
     
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  17. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
     
  18. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    When would the oil cap on the cam cover change ?
     
  19. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    ^ not sure but the cap isnt present on usa cars starting at 139xx
     
  20. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    San Francisco Area
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    John Vardanian
    #21 John Vardanian, Jul 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Hey Chuck, if you haven't done so already, you may want to check the alignment of the fuel rail cups as they face up to the carburettors. I just recalled that years ago Art's six-carb 275 was having all sorts of issues and alignment had a lot to do with it. That was a pain because it was one rigid six-outlet rail with metallic crush washers. I think it's a lesson learned, that the Daytona ended up with a flex link in the middle.

    john
     
  21. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    462
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Hi John, hope you and Pam are well...if i have more issues with it i will do that, i was pleased that i could take 3 banjo bolts out at a time and the rubber hose in the middle connecting the two fuel rails made it easy to reinstall ...does Art still have his ‘Short Nose’
     
  22. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    John Vardanian
    Hi Chuck, we are skipping along and doing well, life's good. Yes, Art still has the car.

    john
     
  23. christc

    christc Karting

    Mar 3, 2013
    246
    Germany
    Hi John,

    I tried to figure out what you mean by this by looking at the photos posted. I must confes I did not get it but am curious about the topic. Can you please help me to get enlighted
     
  24. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,747
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    John Vardanian
    Chris, if you just hold up a three-outlet section of the rail against the corresponding three carburettors, the mating surfaces should appear to be in alignment. If they are, then they would be less likely to leak when in service.

    john
     

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