Fuel Smell on 575M 135171 is Cracked Left Fuel Pump Cover | FerrariChat

Fuel Smell on 575M 135171 is Cracked Left Fuel Pump Cover

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by tazandjan, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,083
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Took 135171 to Aaron and John with a fuel smell I guessed was a cracked fuel pump cover or a leaking roll-over valve. Easiest to eliminate was the roll-over valve, so it turned out to be the left fuel pump cover was cracked. Aaron ordered a new one so she should be ready to go early next week. May go ahead and get a spare right pump to make sure that one does not crack. Luckily nowhere near the price of a complete 550 pump, if you could find one.

    Very different set-up from the 550 so no metal pump covers available. Aaron says the 575M pump would be much harder to swap the cover than the 550 because of the way the fuel lines are attached. Dave or John might be able to comment on that. 612s apparently share this problem.
     
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  2. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,137
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    Dave
    Terry, The 575 cover has an inline pressure regulator incorporated. It would be easy to use a different inline pressure regulator in the internal hose. The hard part is the making electrical pass through fuel proof.

    We didn't like the way they did it on the 550 metal covers so I made our own.

    I don't know if demand would justify production costs
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Dave- I remember when you did that. Liability made you decide not to make the covers available.

    Mine was leaking around the pressure regulator.
     
  4. vandevanterSH

    vandevanterSH Formula 3
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    Jan 27, 2005
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    Recently had both of my 575 fuel pumps replaced for leaking covers. FWIW, new fuel pumps are very scarce.

    Steve
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Ferrari improved the fuel pumps and the original part number has been superseded and replaced with 239819. Different color cover apparently made of better plastic, I hope.
     
  6. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2007
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    Bill
    Taz thanks for the post. Any problem with supply on these or was it maybe just the old number that was difficult to find?
    Bill
    FL
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Bill- My guys did not have any problem finding one, but I note it is an order item from the two primary UK suppliers. Ricambi apparently has them in stock. Price has gone way up to $566 from Ricambi. Seems like it was in the $300s last time I looked. Note the different color cover. Photo courtesy of Ricambi. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,137
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    Dave
    Terry, four years ago when I did our conversion I bought 4 of them from Ferrparts for $ 460 ea.

    I'm sorry now that I didn't save the covers for you. I just couldn't see how they could fail as there is no stress of them unlike the 550 covers.

    Your tech is correct, it's a bit of a chore to replace the hoses but it is doable, just need new hoses and a heat gun.

    My concern now would be the ring nut, I assume it's plastic as well.
     
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Dave- Who knew? They seemed to be pretty much bullet-proof until recently. Maybe they do not like ethanol.
     
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  10. Konadog06

    Konadog06 Formula Junior
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    Aug 22, 2007
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    Thanks Taz.
    I have found that the commonly known problems for the 575's seem to work their way through most if not all the cars. At least that's the way it seems to read. And one by one they've come my way. Was about to add this to my worry list until the concept of ethanol possibly being a factor came up. My car hasn't seen ethanol since 2010. Perhaps it will be a test bed for that idea. Not going to put money on it but at least I can hope...
    Bill
    FL
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Bill- Affirmative, just have to wait and see. We are only swapping the left pump, but I may buy a spare to have on hand just in case.

    Mine has used ethanol mix for at least 10 years, probably more.
     
  12. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    Dave
    Terry, Did you see the actual failure point? was it a crack, can you describe it?
    The pressure regulator is thin metal fabrication cast in place as I recall. I know John wanted me to take one out but I was unable without destroying the regulator. I suspect a stress fracture related to the shrinking of the plastic over time. If that's the case there will be only more failures. I doubt ethanol is the contributing factor. Hopefully someone can gather some more information and discover the causal factor.

    Coming up with a replacement metal cover wouldn't be that hard but it would be fairly expensive. Prototyping cost are heavy especially for a limited production item like this then there's the liability factor.
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave I will have Aaron save the parts for me. I have not looked at the damage yet since she is my daily driver. Suppose the CTE mismatch could be a factor, too, even though the temperature does not vary that much. I asked him whether it would be worthwhile ro reinforce that area with epoxy, but he felt the new plastic should work fine.
     
  14. Impounder

    Impounder Karting

    Aug 6, 2010
    168
    Laguna Niguel, CA
    A few years back I had a fuel leak as well but it was not the pumps. The problem, a fitting on the fuel hose was leaking. Of course you just can't replace the fitting so we had to order a new hose. During the installation, due to the hose being new and inflexible, the fittings on both fuel pumps broke when they tried to attach it. And of course they are attached to the fuel pump so I was told. So of course I had to bend over and pay to replace two perfectly good fuel pumps. 5 weeks and $3,500 later I had my car back. I was told that there were signs that it had been leaking for a while, so all of you need to be cautious if you smell fuel, at the time the car had 37,000 miles on it.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Pretty expensive fuel pumps if it was a 575M, but if they had to pull the tank, it adds up in a hurry.
     
  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Talked to Aaron today and the crack around the fuel pressure regulator is not even visible. Only symptom was a trickle of fuel leaking down the cover. Also explains why the smell went away pretty quickly sitting in the garage. Shrinking plastic sounds like a pretty good diagnosis.
     
  17. Impounder

    Impounder Karting

    Aug 6, 2010
    168
    Laguna Niguel, CA
    Unfortunately, over time these fittings just become brittle
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Have the pump cover in my hands now. We just cut the hoses and wires to the pump so I could take it home and inspect the cover. No visible crack, even with magnifiers on. Will do some more looking when the gasoline smell goes away completely.
     
  19. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    Taz, depending how involved you want to get, Amazon has dye penetrant kits or individual cans of the stuff for finding/highlighting cracks.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    John- Good thought. It did not even leak unless it was pressurized, though, so not sure those tests would show anything.
     
  21. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran
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    Graeme
    Coming from an Aviation background Google dye penetrant Kit there not expensive and you will be surprised what it will find, just follow the instructions.
     
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  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Took some photos of the fuel pump cover. The plastic is very thick and no way it cracked. The fuel pressure regulator must have separated from the plastic, as we surmised. The plastic is obviously different from the new pump cover as you can see here. Looks like they may have used the same mold, but with different plastic.


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  23. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    Sep 30, 2005
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    Terry, did you notice the fuel smell in the cockpit or outside or both?
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mostly outside and it went away fairly quickly. Only leaked when the pumps were running.
     
  25. Chupacabra

    Chupacabra F1 Rookie
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    Crap, that's not what I wanted to hear - mine may have the same issue, then. According to Ferrari of Washington the fuel smell is only in the vicinity of the filler area. They were thinking maybe someone at the other dealership spilled a bit when fueling it up and "found no active leaks" but I doubt the inspection could go so far as to look at the tank and pumps.

    It's going straight to the shop for the H20 temp sensor replacement, so I guess I'll know soon enough.
     

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