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Future of Exotics in USA

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by WILLIAM H, May 25, 2009.

  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    So we just got a peek at BO's new CAFE standards

    Question is: What if he does not allow a loophole for a gas guzzlers ?

    Of course BO loves tax so maybe he'll jack the tax rate on gas guzzlers sky high, I think this is closer to what will happen
     
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  3. SilverRSXJezus

    Mar 10, 2008
    15
    There's already another thread on this just down this page.
     
  4. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

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    Hasn't there been a gas guzzler tax in place for decades?
     
  5. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes, but that doesn't mean the gas guzzler exemption cannot be done away with

    This would mean that no Lambos, Ferraris, AMs etc could be sold in the USA
     
  6. SilverRSXJezus

    Mar 10, 2008
    15


    Except that's something that has very little benefit to be had in any case made by Obama.


    By banning exotics outright, the alleged impact on the environment (if you believe such a thing) is essentially nil due to sheer lack of volume of sales, and if anything, it's regarded as a lost source of taxable revenue.
     
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  8. opus10583

    opus10583 Formula 3

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    ...Be vewy, vewy quiet: He's hunting strawmen.
     
  9. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
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    Market share of exotics has always been small. I think the next wave in exotics is going to be in the kit car direction with limited volume of less than 200 cars. Rolling chassis and you supply the motor. There will be more exotics coming from the USA and countries such as Argentina and Indonesia. Problem with these cars is that here is a lot easyer ways to make money.
     
  10. Duane_Estill

    Duane_Estill F1 Rookie

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    Is "exotic kit-car" an oxymoron?
     
  11. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ultimately, exotics are going to move away from big internal combustion engines anyway, in the same way that carbureted cars couldn't compete with direct injection. If Ferrari, Audi, et al are smart, they will take the lead in developing the next fuel cell (or whatever tech prevails) vehicles, partnering with the right technology companies to make it happen.

    The other option is to take the traditional Detroit angle and kick/scream/whine/b!tch/moan about progress and complain that Obama is taking away our heavy, leaky, expensive to service V8s.

    Where this will probably lead is to faster, lighter, cleaner more efficient cars.
     
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  13. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I dont think it matters, Exotics are a symbol of wealth, independence, and freedom. All of which this administration is against

    The volume of private jets bought by individuals is even smaller than exotics but BO has been dissing jet owners left and right to the degree that you can now buy large private jets at a fraction of what the price should be

    Then he told companies not to have conventions in Vegas which infuriated Harry Reid and the Mayor of Vegas and probably the Gov of NV as well

    I can definately see bad stuff happening to exotics within the next 24 months

    I'm buying a GT1 car and taking it out of the country so I have a nice toy somewhere safe from this BS
     
  14. anunakki

    anunakki Five Time F1 World Champ
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    William

    You do realize that 0bama is only going to be around for a few years...he wasnt crowned King or anything. Even if he did something this drastic (which will never happen) it would be reversed as soon as he left office.

    This is, as someone else said, a straw man argument.

    Anyway...on topic.

    The future of exotics is safe.
     
  15. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    How about the way he treated the investors at Chrysler by breaching their contract, then he got upset when the fund managers had the temerity to sue the Chosen one ?

    He and his allies in Congress can do a whole lot of mischief while they are in office

    One of my Ferrari mechanics almost went bankrupt bcus of this economic mess and I'm sure private jet mechanics and crews are not too happy these days either
     
  16. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    None of which has anything to do with Obama or his policies.
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #14 WILLIAM H, May 25, 2009
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
    BO
    “We’re going to do something to strengthen the banking system," Mr. Obama said, “You are not going to be able to give out these big bonuses until you pay taxpayers back. YOU CAN'T GET CORPORATE JETS. You can't go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayers' dime. There's got to be some accountability and some responsibility.”


    and heres a little article on BO breaching the Contract clause in the US Constitution regarding Chrysler

    Chrysler and the Rule of Law

    The Founders put the contracts clause in the Constitution for a reason.

    By TODD J. ZYWICKI

    The rule of law, not of men -- an ideal tracing back to the ancient Greeks and well-known to our Founding Fathers -- is the animating principle of the American experiment. While the rest of the world in 1787 was governed by the whims of kings and dukes, the U.S. Constitution was established to circumscribe arbitrary government power. It would do so by establishing clear rules, equally applied to the powerful and the weak.

    Fleecing lenders to pay off politically powerful interests, or governmental threats to reputation and business from a failure to toe a political line? We might expect this behavior from a Hugo Chávez. But it would never happen here, right?

    Until Chrysler.

    The close relationship between the rule of law and the enforceability of contracts, especially credit contracts, was well understood by the Framers of the U.S. Constitution. A primary reason they wanted it was the desire to escape the economic chaos spawned by debtor-friendly state laws during the period of the Articles of Confederation. Hence the Contracts Clause of Article V of the Constitution, which prohibited states from interfering with the obligation to pay debts. Hence also the Bankruptcy Clause of Article I, Section 8, which delegated to the federal government the sole authority to enact "uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies."

    The Obama administration's behavior in the Chrysler bankruptcy is a profound challenge to the rule of law. Secured creditors -- entitled to first priority payment under the "absolute priority rule" -- have been browbeaten by an American president into accepting only 30 cents on the dollar of their claims. Meanwhile, the United Auto Workers union, holding junior creditor claims, will get about 50 cents on the dollar.

    The absolute priority rule is a linchpin of bankruptcy law. By preserving the substantive property and contract rights of creditors, it ensures that bankruptcy is used primarily as a procedural mechanism for the efficient resolution of financial distress. Chapter 11 promotes economic efficiency by reorganizing viable but financially distressed firms, i.e., firms that are worth more alive than dead.

    Violating absolute priority undermines this commitment by introducing questions of redistribution into the process. It enables the rights of senior creditors to be plundered in order to benefit the rights of junior creditors.

    The U.S. government also wants to rush through what amounts to a sham sale of all of Chrysler's assets to Fiat. While speedy bankruptcy sales are not unheard of, they are usually reserved for situations involving a wasting or perishable asset (think of a truck of oranges) where delay might be fatal to the asset's, or in this case the company's, value. That's hardly the case with Chrysler. But in a Chapter 11 reorganization, creditors have the right to vote to approve or reject the plan. The Obama administration's asset-sale plan implements a de facto reorganization but denies to creditors the opportunity to vote on it.

    By stepping over the bright line between the rule of law and the arbitrary behavior of men, President Obama may have created a thousand new failing businesses. That is, businesses that might have received financing before but that now will not, since lenders face the potential of future government confiscation. In other words, Mr. Obama may have helped save the jobs of thousands of union workers whose dues, in part, engineered his election. But what about the untold number of job losses in the future caused by trampling the sanctity of contracts today?

    The value of the rule of law is not merely a matter of economic efficiency. It also provides a bulwark against arbitrary governmental action taken at the behest of politically influential interests at the expense of the politically unpopular. The government's threats and bare-knuckle tactics set an ominous precedent for the treatment of those considered insufficiently responsive to its desires. Certainly, holdout Chrysler creditors report that they felt little confidence that the White House would stop at informal strong-arming.

    Chrysler -- or more accurately, its unionized workers -- may be helped in the short run. But we need to ask how eager lenders will be to offer new credit to General Motors knowing that the value of their investment could be diminished or destroyed by government to enrich a politically favored union. We also need to ask how eager hedge funds will be to participate in the government's Public-Private Investment Program to purchase banks' troubled assets.

    And what if the next time it is a politically unpopular business -- such as a pharmaceutical company -- that's on the brink? Might the government force it to surrender a patent to get the White House's agreement to get financing for the bankruptcy plan?


    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124217356836613091.html
     
  18. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

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    Yeah, it's goin' to be great: "Hey, can you lift the hood so we can see the fuel cell stack?".... "Wow! So is that a Proton Exchange Membrane or Solid Oxide unit?" ..... " I hear they've really lengthened the time to reach 10% stack power degradation".... "So does that mean they've also extended the Stack replacement intervals to 3yrs/30kmi?".... "You know, I think aftermarket Carbon Fiber covers would look great on that!"......

    Yeah, should be loads of fun... Just Sayin'.... :(
     
  19. sammyb

    sammyb Formula 3

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    Nobody is going to convert anyone here. Save it for the Politics/Religion forums, please.
     
  20. SilverRSXJezus

    Mar 10, 2008
    15

    ^^^^Agreed.


    This is just turning out to another Anti-Obama thread. While there may be some legitimate issues to be discussed, none of them would seriously threaten the existence of exotics in the U.S.
     
  21. SilverRSXJezus

    Mar 10, 2008
    15


    Hey now, I kind of look forward talking to other people while showing off my flux capacitor...:(


    Keep in mind that talking about direct fuel injection, forged internals, carbon fiber this and that, wishbone suspension, and use of Titanium in cars would have probably sounded just as bizarre some decades ago. ;)
     
  22. opus10583

    opus10583 Formula 3

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    ...You left out "/Wingnuts".
     
  23. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Amen. This thread has nothing to do with cars, apparently.
     
  24. sammyb

    sammyb Formula 3

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    People have a right and need to vent...and they can do so with the hopes of converting, but there's a time and place. In General discussion, we should all be brothers-in-Ferrari-arms. (Of course, that doesn't mean we can't disagree. I mean, I'd rather have a 275 GTS/4 NART Spider than a 250 California or SWB...most people here would think I'm crazy!)
     
  25. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ

    May 27, 2003
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    For a little perspective:

    My '88 328 has the original sticker, showing a "gas guzzler" tax paid in 1988.

    On a car that gets better fuel mileage than most SUVs today.


    1988 was Reagan era in the white house. But look at the congress.

    I keep telling people: Obama is just the face on the cereal box.
    It's the Pelosi flakes inside the box that are bad for you. ;)
     
  26. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Hey have you guy's heard the news? William H is going to leave the country!!!!
     
  27. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #24 WILLIAM H, May 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Getting back to cars

    This Lotus seems to point the way for future sportscars

    Its made of a hemp based composite material and has solar panels on the roof to charge the batteries and cool the cabin

    Lotus said that everybody is focused on higher mpg whereas they focused on making their factory greener and building their car from green raw materials
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  28. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

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    we're all going to end up being forced into buying cars with 100hp or weaker motors that all look the same and are just terrible all around. They'll cost more to. Good reason to hold on to and acquire old cars assuming your not horribly punished for it or entirely unallowed to do so. I like this guy less and less as time goes by.
     

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