360 - Gear Release Failed | FerrariChat

360 Gear Release Failed

Discussion in '360/430' started by Michael39GGT, May 14, 2024.

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  1. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
    81
    Full Name:
    Michael Baganz
    #1 Michael39GGT, May 14, 2024
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
    Hallo guys, what this issue means ? its a DTC in the TCU.


    Selfe learn even dont work. it appears directy " Job ok".

    What i did:

    rebuild the actuator.
    New gear position sensor (the old one jumps on the values)

    Neutral is in the display 5 gear.

    Values:

    engagements : 220
    selection: 686

    what i did: actuator bleeding, clutch bleeding, and the actuator finger i put by my eyes in the middle of the actuator housing. i dont have this alignment tool. selfelearn dont work, dont care if the the actuator is screwed on the transmission or next to the car. i updated the tcu by a cs tcu
     
  2. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    no answere.. not good
     
  3. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,818
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    Dominick
    Can you select all gears using diagnostic tool
    Usually the self learn fails when the potentiometers are bad


    If you can select each gear using tool and record the potentiometer travel for engagement and travel ...report back

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  4. andrejwolk1975

    andrejwolk1975 Karting

    Feb 28, 2020
    74
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Andrea M
  5. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Nov 30, 2005
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    Eric DECOUX
    engagements : 220 & selection: 686 are consistent with 5th gear.
    Can you select N, either with paddles or with diag tool ?

    What happen when you start a relearn ?
     
  6. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    #6 Michael39GGT, May 15, 2024
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
    @eric355 .:
    manual i can select N. by the paddels i can not one gear change. just by the diag tool. 360 gear change: always an issue as response. 430: works, without an issue as response.

    The plastic insert of the lower sensor, the lever inside is broken and can no longer be found. I put a new metal one in there. does it have to be installed without any material play? Bolt is an M3

    right now, it was not possible to do this job better. both Sensors, i changed today, both by new one. Not original. (hella)

    Later i will upload here a Video, what is happening when i start the selfelearn.
    When i change gears by the diag tool, all gears are different.. 1 is 5 for example.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Is your clutch working OK ?
    Can you start the car ?
     
  8. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
    81
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    Michael Baganz
    #8 Michael39GGT, May 15, 2024
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
    Hallo Eric,

    before i rebuild the actuator, all was fine. now the selfelearn starts (that little plastic guy did my day..). But just only 1 - 2 , 1 - 2 and then 3 and it stops. Maybe the pipes are not okay, or not in the correct order screwed on the actuator... we will see.. maybe the problem is that the actuator finger is not in the right position ? i dont have this alignment tool. somebody knows, how much distance the finger needs to have in vertical direction ? i found a picture... but its not the actuator in the 360..

    @eric355 the car dont start. when the car is in neutral, the car will start for a secondf, but stops after 1 or 1,5 Seconds. PIS i set to 17,00. i was not able to read out the old 17X tcu to find out, what PIS i have. i also bleeded the clutch and the actuator and opened the 3 screws under the actutor. i am not sure if the hydraulic pipes correct connectet to the hydraulic block. its labeled in may case 1, 2, 3, 2, 4, 5. The black one is for the clutch. But i have two times "2". i checked the cable colors... by the electric circle - its correct. I think one of the hydraulic pipes are not correct screwed (engagement) to the actuator. manual, when i put 5v external to each electric valve, all valves are good.

    another thing: when i shift from 1 to 2 then the actiator finger always goes in another row down. so: 1 - neutral row down - row up. - 2. maybe an electric valve is bad ? we will see. the night is young...

    Question: the new sensor (for engagement) is not original... something needs to modify ?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,818
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    It seems like you and Eric are working on it so I will not step on anyone's toes

    I still feel you need to change the gears from 1 to 6 N R with tool and look at live data ...look for the potentiometer for travel and the other for engagement

    When you have all 12 numbers you can see if sensors are bad or something else ..even pipes out wrong

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  10. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    Have you really set the PIS at 17mm in the CS TCU ???? If yes, set it back to 4.3mm !!!

    May be you are talking of the "clutch position when new" ? Even for this one 17mm is wrong !!! 15mm is a more realistic value !
     
  11. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    yeah you are right. PIS is 4.9 and clutch position new is 17mm yes. my launch read out my old TCU with a clutch position about 17mm, so i wrote it like this. i will change this and will be back then
     
  12. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
    81
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    Michael Baganz
    i am sure i found the isse.

    1. both sensors are the same - right ?

    2. when i change the sensors (selector - engagement) then the selfelearn dont start.

    3. the bad sensor before i changed by a cheap one. the sensor use 3 cables but the connector on the top hold 4 cables. 1 cable diappear in the main cable by the sensor.

    i bought in germany a sensor, which is absolutly looking like this: https://www.sequparts.com/product/selection-sensor-potentiometer-ferrari-f1/

    (Without a cable)

    what i need to modify ? Scott (Ratarossa) was speaking in one of his videos that there is something to modify.

    Somebody can help me ?

    The clutch value about 17 mm i can NOT change. not by bigger, not by smaler values... 17mm are written by automatic of the tcu
     
  13. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    @flash32 thank you. yellow is dummy ? by circuit diagram i was thinking its the signal line... engagement blue / gearshift yellow signal line.
     
    flash32 likes this.
  14. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Yellow IIRC is the drain wire for the shielded cable
     
  15. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,818
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    Full Name:
    Dominick
  16. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    #17 Michael39GGT, May 15, 2024
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
    finally.... an internal seal is in the actuator broken. Fluid comes out.

    thanks for the last link. nice. i put all cables in the correct position. i think the actuator was all the time the problem..

    i am sure i know what seal is broken... from the big pipe in the actuator for gear selection, at the end comes a seal maybe 17mm... i hope i can buy one who works for this job. the pressure went lose at this seal.. and because of this there were no pressure to press the "piston" inside the actuator. 100 % sure that this is finally my problem. ****

    a video where you can see that the engine dont want start.

    https://streamable.com/ayy9gm
     
  17. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
    81
    Full Name:
    Michael Baganz
  18. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
    81
    Full Name:
    Michael Baganz
    today i rebuild the actuator and saw what was wrong: the hole the EV 4 was inside closed by the sleeve. Need rotate correctly into the correct position so that the notches clear the holes. and one seal i will change tomorrow. looks bad that guy.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    #20 Michael39GGT, May 18, 2024
    Last edited: May 18, 2024
    so i am back. i rebuild the actuator and put all in the right position with new seals. Adaption went at first only up to the 4th gear. then also until the 6th gear. but no revers. when i select by the tester the gears... all gears are working good, except the 5th gear. i dont know what is the reason for.

    In the car i can change again the gears n, 1, 2, 3, 4 reverse. Seems to me that the EV have a problem to build up enough pressure to put the actuator finger down, in the 3rd line gears 5-6... i changed the electrical connectors EV 4 and 5 at the pressure block and then all gears were working. question: at the pressure block, the EV (except the clutch of course), and the metall housing are all the same - yes ? maybe a seal or a PTFE seal is not good i the actuator between EV 4 and 5 ? reverse i can put in successfully by the diag tester... i bled the actuator 5 times.
     
  20. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    #21 Michael39GGT, May 18, 2024
    Last edited: May 18, 2024
    does the shaft have 2 teflon rings for selection? So also one pushed up in the middle? I mean the same Teflon ring as the one that comes in the seal on the measuring plate, under the cam. and by the way, somebody knows where you can buy them ?

    values of the gears (position)

    1: 257 -472
    2: 732-395
    3: 273-587
    4: 727-559
    5: 469-630
    6: 519-629
    R: 717-323

    the machanic on the sensor for the selector i repaired... maybe it block in the 3rd line, gear 5 und 6 ? somebody knows how much mm the little knop is on the mechanic ? my one was broken and is until today away. maybe my modigocation knop is too long and it block between gear 5-6...
     
  21. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Michael Baganz
    #22 Michael39GGT, May 18, 2024
    Last edited: May 18, 2024
    Adaption video:

    https://streamable.com/bv4k9r

    469 for the 5h gear is to big... it means the knop block in the mechanical actuator housing. can somebody tell me, how much mm the knop is long ?
     
  22. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
    81
    Full Name:
    Michael Baganz
    nobody have an idea ? tomorrow i will try to bleed the actuator again.
     
  23. Michael39GGT

    Michael39GGT Karting

    Jan 1, 2021
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    Full Name:
    Michael Baganz
    #24 Michael39GGT, May 19, 2024
    Last edited: May 19, 2024
    the adaption is complete right now.

    What i did ? Bleed again the actuator, the finger i turned 2 mm down. but my problem was the pump. i opened the pump, cleaned it. the magnets was full of dirt. One carbon brushes is a bit short and the spring dont give enough pressure for a good contact to the collector. But, the Pump works fine now. DTC is clear.

    Engine i can not start. the engine want start but dont turn the engine. what is the reason for that behavior ? I put a new 90AH Battery to the car but nothing changed. Sounds like a ground problem ...

    The complete adaption:

    https://streamable.com/vv41qj


    The Clutch wear i can not change. why ? PIS is on 4.3mm. th clutch i bled, both bled nipples with the diag tool. driver door i closed (ignore the "open door message on my pictures below. i did the screenshot, when the door was open). Hydraulic pressure 50bar.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,818
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Make sure the brake switch is working and the clutch moves when you turn the key ...both can be seen on diag tool .. clutch plate travel

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     

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