Get Out & VOTE !!! Who's done it?

Not much of a System fan, huh, Ed...?

 

Voted this morning at 8:15. Republican all the way!!

 

As of right now, it looks like if Bush wins Ohio the game's over...

 

It could be Nevada, Kenny.

As of now, he also has 4 million more votes overall. If this becomes much of a larger margin, I think the dems will half to call off the litigation dogs.

 

I believe that what you say is mostly true. I also believe that it is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. Your one vote can make a difference. If you don't vote "in protest" they win. You can make a difference. I'm 52 years old and in my younger days, I was part of a generation that got some pretty inportant things changed, one of which was lowering the voting age to 18. "Old enough to die, old enough to vote".

Please vote. Apathy isn't protest, it's the "establishment's" tool to keep the sheep in a straight line.

 

tell me the theroy again 18 to vote 18 to die 21 to drink where is the justification behind that again.

look you only know what they tell you gov,media and so on i watched the news last night and in big lettering it said YOU DECIDE that is the biggest crock of shiit i have ever seen. the goverment has a plan of action and that action does not and will not include our thoughts or our votes . they decide they make the rules its been that way since the beggining they just tell you that you matter in there country but in reality your a thumbnail short of being like the rest of the world a brainwashed robot.

i am not preaching here i could care less if you agree or not i just try to look inbetween the cracks not at them.

the president is a puppet a simple fasad and we are the robots.

your as free as you think you are

 

Buttuz4eva wrote "your as free as you think you are". Would that is was so. It looks like the Republicans here got what they wanted. Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

What amazes me is that so many people in the country just don't get it. Freedom is an elusive concept. The founders of this country understood that certain important concepts were at the core of freedom and that those things overrode other things. Freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, the right of assembly and free association, freedom of speech, are the most important rights we have. With them, the freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to a trial by jury and to confront our accusers, and other basic constitutional rights make us different that any other nation in the world.

Be careful what you ask for... Just watch what happens to the Supreme Court over the next four years. Watch what happens when congress renews the Patriot Act and expands its intrusiveness and takes away fundamental constitutional rights. Watch what happens as the ultra-right wing conservative side of the Republican party works to reshape the social fabric of this country. Don't be surprised as you watch the freedoms that make this country what it is are slowly but surely eroded away.

Don't believe me? Just listen to the Republican leadership, what they are saying already. They are calling this a landslide victory. A mandate. They are calling it an overwhelming win for morality and a showing that the people of this country want more conservative government. This ain't about LESS government. It's about government controlling our thoughts and imposing their view of morality and religion on us and the world. It's about the fundamentalists forcing their evangelical views on us and others. It's about them believing that Jesus will return once Armagedon happens in the middle-East and their belief that our crusade there will bring it about.

Enjoy the win now. I just hope we all don't end up regretting it.

 

Not saying that it is correct but our health and well being is more important then our free speech and civil rights.

And as to what Buttuz said, I agree to an extent- regardless of what we say, everyone has an agenda. Our president obviously can't have a handle on every aspect of society- so he has advisors- who have advisors. Regardless of who our president is, their advisors will recieve intelligence from the same CIA, FBA, NSA etc- and will probably make very similar decisions and actions as to securing 'our safety'.

Anyone who thinks us going to war in Iraq wouldn't have happened under any other administration is being niave.

If I didn't have a ton of tests coming up I'd expand on this...

 

"The remain, the risen, unjustafiable, egotistical
Power struggle at the expense of the American dream
of the American dream, of the American
We don't give a damn about your world with all your global prophets and all your jeweled pearls.
We don't give a damn about your world
Right now! Right now!
We don't give a f_ck about your world with all your global prophets and all your jeweled pearls.
We don't give a **** about your world.
Right now, right now, right now, right now."

 

tru carbon but why is fasterisbetter saying becarfull on what you wish for what is the difference betwween alowwing you to think your vote matters and them telling you your not allowed to vote?

thinking that it matters just makes you fell comfertable in where you live and take that away and you dont feel comfertable anymore

but they have already decided long ago.

and your thoughts or actions did not make one difference.

I am not wishing for anything. I am not repub or democ i could care less its all been writen down and unfourtunatly thats how this great country works around lies, power and money.

Today is a sad day not because bush won but because once again the public has had the wool pulled over there eyes one more time.

 

Don't be so quick to give up what little control you have.
The addage "Give them an inch and they'll take a yard" is true.
Others will gladly usurp your rights in exchange for your apathy.

by voting, you are at least telling politicians....we are watching and we like/don't like what we see and we aren't going to make this easy or go down like sheep.
granted, there are *a lot* of sheep. And politicians do count on sheep.

You also have an alternative. If you don't like things, become part of the system and change it. If you think a town is screwiing up your business with it's picayune rules, join the council (or ruling body) and have the laws changed. Kick it up a notch to the county, state, national level.

I am not naive. I've tried this on the local level. I honestly thought I could help. I learned a lot.

Is politics about "doing the right thing" ? Unfortunately not. But you do make a lot of contacts who do want you to change things for their businesses. That spells power. Money. That's why politics exists as it does today. To shape business climats. To take care of each other.

Take it back down to the personal level. Are you happy when your employees are happy? Are you happy when they are PO'd about something? How many times can you tell them "I don't care what you think. Just do it?" Will that attitude keep you in business? Will you keep employees? will your employees then treat your customers with the best attitude to keep them coming back?
You do listen. Goverment listens. Intently? nope. enough for change? Yep. Sometimes simply to stop the people from whinning while you try & keep the business running profitably.

As a side note. Glad everyone took the time to vote.
presumably, you took the time to look at the candidates and
didn't succumb to apathy.

soap box away.

 

stoops!

like i said before I am glad that you are comfertable because thats exactly how the goverment has trained you to be.

hats off to them they are prevailing.

remmember "YOU DECIDE"

 

KennyH wrote: "Not saying that it is correct but our health and well being is more important then our free speech and civil rights."

Obviously from your comment about having too many tests to take, you're too young to remember the civil rights struggles of the 60's. Or Vietnam. Or the Berlin wall. Our health and well being flow from our civil rights. Without them, we are nothing more than a two-bit dictatorship.

The problem with the American public is that it is more concerned about its own health and well being than it is about things that really matter. You'd trade freedom for random searches any time you're walking down the street? You'd trade your civil rights for allowing police to kick down your door any time they felt like it? What if the government didn't like something you said, so they threw you in jail, never charged you with a crime and denied you the right to even speak to an attorney? What if Bush was Muslim rather than Christian. Would you be happy if you had to say prayers to Allah every day in public school?

Once you start down that slippery slope of eroding personal rights and liberties, where do you stop? Without our Bill of Rights, without those constitutional safeguards, without the protection of the minority from the tyrrany of the majority, we become a dictatorship.

The founding fathers knew what they were doing. Saying that they didn't foresee todays global problems ignors the beauty of the structure they created, which protects us all from our own excesses. Times change, but basic principles of freedom, liberty and justice should endure and not be thrown aside for expedient ends used to justify the means.

Do I want to see terrorism strike us again? Absolutely not. Am I willing to forego my constitutional liberties to assure that? Absolutely not. We are a smart and powerful country. We ought to be able to find better ways of protecting ourselves than to destroy the fundamental rights that we should be holding sacred.

 

woooooow are you that nieve or just pretending to be ?

first off who cars if george bush was muslim and who cares what god you pray to are you saying that muslims are no good?

second 4 fathers are you joking what they wrote was good?

so i guess your saying that blacks and woman should have no rights huh?

see what i mean guys sheep a prime exsample of one.

stoops.

all i am saying is that the voteing is fixed i am not saying that this country sucks and i want to move to canada?

 

Wow, you'd best take some reading lessons. That's not what I said at all. Re-read it. The whole point is that no one should be imposing their will on anyone else. Everyone has rights, or should have them. In a free society, you even have the right to be ignorant. But no one should have the right to deny you your basic freedoms, impose their God on you, or deprive you of liberty or property without due process of law.

Oh, why am I wasting my time? If you don't get it, well, so be it. I guess we are going to hell in a handbasket.

 

Nah. This is where we drop the thread noting that this is one of several topics that can get heated very quickly.

We are all friends. We all respect each other's views.....even if they don't do NJ

 

Something to think about:

Two countries go to war. The solders on one side pray to their GOD that they will survive the day. The solders on the other side also pray to their GOD that they will also survive the day. Well, at the end of the day I hope that my GOD is better than your GOD.

 

wtf? Yes, and we are all human beings, blah-blah. Sorry there is a difference between "them" and "us." Last time I checked we aren't fighting regular army types, who do things like follow international laws regarding war or even the Geneva Convention. Have a little more back bone, support your country -- one could've said the exact same thing about the Axis fighters during WWII. I could go on and on about this, but I won't.

You know what I find interesting -- how many more Democrats in the tri-state area voted for Bush. I myself am a first generation American (first one to vote, etc), child of two very active peaceniks (my pops wrote for the Gaurdian and both protested the War while at Columbia), went to NYU, and consider myself pro-gay marriage (I can't do that to Keith imho), engaged to a phd geneticist from Harvard (the stem-cell connex), pro-choice (iow pretty liberal/progressive in terms of social issues), and most definately a registered Democrat. However, despite that, I am willing to forgo all my domestic social activism an align myself with the President and the Republicans simply because security and executing the war are the most important thing to me.

I imagine like many here, September 11th, was a defining moment for me. That morning I was reading a book called the "Bush Dyslexicon" -- it's a book I haven't opened since (instead opting to read such titles as Bush at War etc). There are few defining moments in my generations life (perhaps the Berlin Wall coming down and the Challenger), so this is without a doubt the life altering one. I honestly do look at my life before 9/11 and after, and can unequivically say that it is different.

I was not surprised to find that there are many like-minded people like myself, even in academic circles, who are supportive of the president. However, I was also discouraged to find that there are many who have forgotten 9/11, and instead are focusing on domestic issues -- whose time, frankly, is not now. Regardless, it is interesting to see that in both NJ and NY the President collected a fair amount of votes. Ever since Dinkins got the boot, the City has some pretty decent size Republican leanings. It's just unfortunate that people see voting for Bush, as a vote the Christian Conservatives and their agenda.

-N

 

Nabbs,

From the sound of it, I am from your parent's generation. I'm a registered Democrat but that is only for the convenience of being allowed to vote in primaries. I consider myself an Independent. I voted for Bush because we are at war. Not with Iraq or Afghanistan, but with Muslim Fundamentalists. We are beginning to learn how to fight a war without rules, ethics, or morality and once we fully grasp the concept, we will make real progress.

On the other hand, I am very far from the Concervative Right in terms of social issues. I am pro-choice, pro stem cell research, pro constitution. I believe in the Constitution and its amendments and am willing to tolerate child pornography, less than perfect homeland security in order to protect my right to privacy. I belong to the NRA but don't own a gun. I am willing to tolerate that some guilty will go free and some innocents will be incarcerated. In other words, i'd rather live in an imperfect America than in a "perfect" society anywhere else.

For those who are wiling to give up freedoms for the illusion of safety under a watchful government I say, be very, very careful.

my .02

 

sorry i misunderstood i do need to take reading lessons and spelling lessons also and grammer lessons and a lot of other things and

 

You can read?

-N

 

no

 

Tom,

I'm sorry to say, but there is one fundamental flaw in your reasoning -- Bush and his sycophantic followers don't distinguish between the ultra-right wing that supported him and the moderate and left leaning people who voted for him believing that we needed to support our President in a time of war. Bush and his minions believe that the vote was a mandate for their Fundamentalist Far-right agenda, which they will now shove down all of our throats.

It is really unfortunate that so many people were led like sheep down the primrose path by war rhetoric and fears of terrorism, and misleading characterizations of what the President really believes in and stands for. I just hope that the Democrats in Congress, and the Senate in particular (where the filibuster is possible) will have the guts to stand up and stop the right wing nonsense that will be proposed as law or nominations to the Supreme Court from stealing our liberties and changing the social fabric of our country.

 

That cop car had SCMODS

 

Good enough to know that whatever they wrote would not hold indefinitely.

How many other countries in the Western Hemisphere can boast of governments that allow for change from within sans armed rebellion?