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360 Getting real close to a purchase, please stop me!

Discussion in '360/430' started by David Charles, Dec 15, 2020.

  1. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
    Full Name:
    Richard Boddington
    Ok I'm back. I was here a year ago discussing the California, as I was told by Ferrari of Ontario about the dreaded DCT failures in models 2009-2012. Those were the ones in my price range so I gave it a pass, and bought a new Porsche in Feb and took the four year warranty. The Porsche has been fantastic, I have zero complaints about it. But...I still want a Ferrari.

    There are a number of 2004 360s in my "pay cash" price range in Ontario, 100k-110K CA$. Quite affordable. One red Spider only has 17, 000 KMs (10, 625 mi) on it. Buuuut, a number of F430s are also on the market, there is one for only 119K CA$, 2007, 52, 000 KMs (32, 500 mi). The F430 I know is a much more modern car than the 360, and the headlights have not aged like they have on the 360.

    So, I'm gonna buy one or the other. I will keep my Porsche, and use it for when the Ferrari is in the shop. I know I will be hit with expensive yearly repairs on either car. I have read all the 360 threads about people replacing expensive items and often waiting weeks for a part to arrive. Oh well, what can ya do?

    My question here today is.....how many have experienced total engine failure on a 360 or F430? I had this happen to me on two high end, out of warranty cars I owned, a Mercedes sedan and a Audi Q7. They both had total engine failure. I can imagine that a new engine on a 360 or F430, could be as much as the price of the car with labour! I haven't found any info on the web with regards to complete engine failure on the 360 of F430, although I know it will be a risk. I suppose I have to look at this from the perspective of saying...this is 100K I may never see again.
     
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  3. Maine57S1

    Maine57S1 Karting
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    Dec 5, 2016
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    John
    I have owned dozens of cars and never had "total engine failure" on any of them. If it happens to you a third time im thinking it might not be the cars :) If you want a Ferrari buy a Ferrari.. You live once. And i for one love everything about my 360 including the headlights.
     
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  4. Dewinator

    Dewinator F1 Rookie
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    Jun 22, 2017
    2,919
    WA
    I'm absolutely obsessed with my 360 and plan to keep it forever, no other car would be the same to me... but honestly it wouldn't be worth the compromises if I just wanted "a Ferrari". I recommend you get the California.
     
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  5. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
    Full Name:
    Richard Boddington
    I can get a 2012 California from Ferrari Ontario with a two year CPO for 150K CA$. I do like that car.

    I did find a few threads posted from guys doing total engine re-builds on 360s, UG. The single clutch seems to be the major Achilles Heel of the 360 and F430.

    I love love the engine on display aspects of the 360 and 430, that is awesome, no question about that!
     
  6. BruceC

    BruceC Karting
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    Apr 26, 2018
    154
    Tucson, AZ
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    Bruce M Cochran
    As a 430 owner for the last 5 years, I spend a lot of time on the 360/430 forum and don't recall having ever seen a post from someone that lost an engine. If you watch this forum, you'll find there are some common issues to watch out for - generally none that are fatal, and having access to a good indie or trusted Ferrari shop might be a more important consideration.

    When I was contemplating moving to a 458 last year, one of the sales reps from Foreign Cars Italia mentioned that each newer generation tends to be a little more reliable and having perused that forum as well, I think that's a reasonable statement. Whatever you're shopping for, being educated on what to look for (or paying for a PPI) and finding a car with a well-documented maintenance history would be pretty important in my book.
     
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  8. DiabloTerr

    DiabloTerr Formula Junior
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    Aug 3, 2010
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    Terrance Findley
    You could worry about an engine failure......or you could buy the car and be done with it... You could get a 10k-15k bill, you might not, these cars are fairly reliable when taken care of. My life changed when I realized it's all risky, buying a Ferrari is risky, but living and dieing without owning a Ferrari is also risky...

    When I drive my 360 I am not thinking about repair bills, I am thinking about the next gear. It's not how long you live, it's how you live :)
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  9. SRLC716

    SRLC716 Karting
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    Sep 15, 2019
    143
    Buffalo
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    Sam
    My Ferrari is a labor of love. Winding it out to 8600 is like no other driving experience I’ve had, and I’ve had some great ones. Take the plunge. It’s worth it. Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  10. Jda550911

    Jda550911 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2020
    32
    Florida
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    James
    +1 on you only live once! Get a Ferrari!

    I moved from a 550 to a 430 for reliability/servicing reasons(no major $5k service every 3 years). From spending hours on Fchat and my experience, 430 ownership seems to and has been great, with less small things going wrong than 360s.

    Electronics in cars seem to have made a huge jump reliability wise after the very early 2000 years, so that pushed me towards 430, away from 360. On the mechanical side, everyone I've talked to says service your v8 well, on a recommended schedule, and major issues will be extremely rare. There is one thread on here even weighing if they are "bulletproof" or not.

    The f1 transmission seems smoother, faster, and better calibrated in 430s as well, as they worked out kinks and improved performance over the years. A single clutch is technically slower, but more engaging and I love the crack you get you hit a throttled up shift. From my experience, letting a car sit for extended periods of time is when you have problems with the f1 pump. Addressing since you mentioned it may be the "Achilles heel". I will admit, it's really the only thing I'm ever nervous about on my 430.

    Another idea to possibly make your decision harder, have you looked into 599 GTBs? Front engined like a California, you get a v12 Ferrari, way more "oomph", and an all around very cool car.
     
  11. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Curt
    If you "Want a Ferrari" get the California. Newer, more modern, there is a solution for the gearbox sensor now. It's a 2+2 and will be a great car.

    When I hear about person that has "Total engine failure" on Two cars... you don't want a 360 or a 430. It tells me that you didn't ask them "WHY" and then tell them that they're full of ****. To have total engine failure on TWO cars you've owned means you didn't put any oil in it. or B: actually played the part in the guy who knows nothing about cars. At any rate, its even more interesting than just a variator failure or clutch failure in the 360 or 430.. in the 360 you can be at a stoplight with an F1 car and it suddenly won't go into gear. Could just be a brake switch that has gone bad. Or.. could be something worse. In which case you have a mechanic (or will you take it to the dealership in Toronto?) who will fix it? If you really were serious, you'd have this discussion with a mechanic who will be fixing it when you buy it. You find your mechanic BEFORE you buy your Ferrari. You get a pass with a Porsche but a 20 year old Ferrari like a 360 or 430.. you've got to up your mechanic game if you want to stand a chance. Do the Cali and park it in the Garage and tell everyone you have a Ferrari.
     
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  13. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
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    Richard Boddington
    Guys, I have no idea why the engines on the Mercedes and Audi Q7 failed? I certainly maintain my cars very well with fastidious maintenance. The Mercedes was 10 years old, the Audi Q7 the Audi mechanic said the V8s ran too hot and were not very good engines.

    After doing a lot more reading, there have been people who have had total engine failure in the 360s and F430s. Some did rebuilds, some looked for a used engine on a wrecked car. Statistically speaking, I am sure it is very rare in either car.

    I do enjoy the California, drove it for a week in LA. I just need to get into a 2013+, and hopefully red. I have found that with Ferraris if you have cash on hand, a quick deal can be had from a distressed seller who needs quick cash. Not that I wish to profit from another man's misfortune mind you. But, if someone needs quick cash and I have that quick cash, we can help each other.

    People keep saying the California is a GT car, but I drove it on Mulholland Drive in LA, and thought it did ok. My Porsche is closer to the "sports car" experience, being only a two seater, and much lighter and shorter than a California.
     
  14. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
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    Richard Boddington
    "Another idea to possibly make your decision harder, have you looked into 599 GTBs?"

    Yes, really awesome, just more money than I want to "blow" on a Ferrari.
     
  15. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
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    Richard Boddington
    Boy reading the Cali thread just now, amazed at how many forum members left the F430 and went to the Cali, proclaiming it to be "better." They seem so different to me, of course I have never driven an F430. Both great cars of course.
     
  16. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
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    Richard Boddington
    That cali is certainly a heavy girl at 1, 870 KGS! My Porsche is only 1, 385 KGS, and the Porsche is still quite a bit lighter than the 360 or 430. I'm sure the Cali would blast past my Porsche in a straight line though.
     
  17. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

    May 20, 2018
    2,050
    Houston
    Full Name:
    One4torque
    There is a 360 gated owner on fb w a serious engine problem— banging rev limiter on YouTube vids — variator goes snap.

    to op—I’ve found owning a now 20 yr old 360 to be a labor of love. There will many small and med issues to deal with... if you don’t love this car you will get tired of it quickly and move on.....

    I suggest a newer modern f car w warranty....

    Also if one person has two blown engines on modern German cars... the 20 yr old Italian will not last long imho.
     
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  18. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    If you are talking about Michael (who is an awesome enthusiast and a value to the F-car community), you need to add that his car is a '99, had 53k miles, and beats the living hell out of that thing at every given opportunity while documenting it.
     
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  19. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    If that FB owner has a yellow 360 in Maryland and has "Gated" on the license plate... then that's an anomaly. The one I know with those characteristics beats the **** out of his cars. Not surprised at all. But guy I know above is seriously mechanically handy so he can fix a blown engine.
     
  20. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    It does not matter how good the Porsche is, there is nothing like a Ferrari. The function of a Porsche is ... for use when the Ferrari is in the shop. You got that right.

    As for total engine failure on 360, rare. But this is a Ferrari, you don't need an engine failure to rack up a binder full of bills.
     
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  21. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    That's the guy...he also had the original design variators.
     
  22. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Oh god.. Michael. He beat the **** out of the Aston that he had before it, and beat the Monaro that he had before that. Its the same tripe from him... buy manual 360 to hold value, beats on it and does burnouts and donuts in the car. Then it dies. Every "fix" he does for the car changing the parts to aftermarket is the same post 1: look at this crappy substandard Ferrari part. Part 2: look at this aftermarket part I'm putting on in its place. Every other post is from some dude in a Miata or his parents BMW commenting "Ferrari quality".
    It's not the car. Its the driver.. He's going to kill it again and then ultimately sell it "in great condition". I used to chime in and call it out but I'm going to let the train wreck unfold.

    OP, get a car in commensurate with your skills and desires. If you're a write the check kind of guy to get it fixed, a 20 year old Ferrari won't be as cheap or reliable as a newer car. No offense on my original post, but as these get older having some technical competence is very valuable. That two cars had an engine failure is a red flag to me... Cali IMHO.
     
  23. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
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    Richard Boddington
    ".....That two cars had an engine failure is a red flag to me.."

    I already explained what the Audi mechanic said about the Q7, and the Mercedes was 10 years old.
     
  24. David Charles

    David Charles Karting

    Jan 28, 2020
    56
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    Richard Boddington
    Interesting there is a guy who bought a 2010 Cali on this forum. He got it mid Nov, was having the dreaded DCT issues already by early Dec. I suspect he wanted to drive it not have a "labour of love." So....just confirms to me what Ferrari told me at the start you have to go min 2013 on those cars.
     
  25. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Hahah, Ican see that...but I admit I do enjoy his posts, and seems like a decent guy from the interactions I've had with him buying a few parts off him, and I'm really interested in how his cryo cams and variators turn out. You are right about resale though...as much as it's life has been documented it will be very hard to sell.
     
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  26. Maine57S1

    Maine57S1 Karting
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    Dec 5, 2016
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    John
    Ok for those of us not FB savvy who is this guy you are talking about?
     
  27. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior
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    Oct 31, 2014
    682
    Houston, TX
    This guy....

    He's got a few episodes of the car

     
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  28. Maine57S1

    Maine57S1 Karting
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    Dec 5, 2016
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    Thanks..i know who it is now.. i watched the Mont Tremblant ones.
     

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