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Give Ferrari a Grade

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Mark(study), Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    5,932
    Clearwater, FL
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    Mark
    A-F how do you grade Ferrari today?

    Watching F-chat I've seen
    -612 voted biggest disappointment at Detroit Auto Show
    -360CS being cancelled to buy Gallardos
    -360CS being off specs ( HP & weight) converting a regular 360 instead?
    -360 spider owners talking about trading for Murci's
    -575's not moving off the showroom floor. Never made a true spider
    -Maser a bit slow in the sales and sharing platform with VW

    On the plus side-
    -Still a waiting-list for the 360 and Spider
    -360 Spider holding its value
    -Racing, and History/Heritage still strong as its ever been
    -Nice people you meet
    -Product Marketing is super strong
    -550/575 gives the old Daytona crowd something to cheer about

    I'd give Ferrari a "C"
     
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  3. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 9, 2002
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    I give Ferrari an A++++ but Im very very biased :) The company has their problems, and some of the cars aren't the greatest, but the same can be said for any other company!!

    I still like the 612 :)
     
  4. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Neil
    Purchase price not affordable to most people, costs to run these things are freakin' crazy. A for product. C- for putting the product on the top shelf, in a safe, in a wall, in a safe, under video and guard.
     
  5. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,813
    ny
    360 and spider get a+ for bringing modern exotics to life but that was 5 yrs ago

    360cs gets f- for being a marketing ploy to keep interest in 5 yr old car

    575/612 get b for being nice but i just dont see why ferrari needs to compete with aston martin, bentley, mb, etc. these are cruisers and f should be racers
     
  6. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    Too biased the lowest grade Ill give any ferrari is the 612 with a A+++
    other wise they all get A+ repeating.
     
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  8. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    5,932
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    What about the others?

    Ford "B+" for the new GT if its really that fast (speed/price/history)
    Lambo "B" for two great cars but needs a F1 racing program with Audi to get an "A"
    Lotus "C-" for losing the Esprit before a replacement is ready
    Honda "D-" for keeping the NSX unchanged for too long
    P cars "?" I never know how to rate them, although I like the GT
    Viper "C" 500/500 HP/torque but style lost something from the older cars
     
  9. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    As much as I hate sounding vulgar on here...Heres my grade for Honda a big F*ck minus. I hate honda with a passion. Except for there F1 efforts. I just pity those.
     
  10. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,514
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    Ford "C+" for the new Gt, looks, fast but can not purchase one unless you friend with dealer and getting it serviced at Ford :(
    Lambo"B +" for two very good cars and they are Italien :) but, very small dealer network and would like to see them in some serious racing. And a 3 year warranty.
    Ferrari" A+", for making beautiful and passionate cars. History and F1 world champs. Stradale and Enzo, a raw and wonderful additions to stable. But, they are expensive to service and thats about it ...
    Lotus "D" letting their main product die about three years ago :(
    Honda"F" letting their NSX die about 5 years ago
    Porsche "B+" wonderful driving cars, well engineered, GT a great supercar. But, they make too many of their high end cars, and they are a little to conservative in their body designs
    Viper "B" They make wonderful power from the V10 motors, relatively cheap to buy and run, But, they are too un-refined.
     
  11. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2001
    4,274
    dusty old farm town
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    I'd give Ferrari a C.

    Ford- A, I love the new GT!
    Lambo- B, the Murci is a home run. Jury still out on the Gallardo.
    Lotus- C, they need to improve with quality and design
    Honda- D, NSX needed to be updated 10 years ago.
    Porsche- D, the new TT does everything well and is blindingly fast. However, it's about as involving as a video game. Listen up Porsche, there's a reason you're older cars hold value better than your new ones. Give me a 94 3.6 Turbo or a 95 TT anyday over the 996 TT.
    Viper-D, read above. I loved the original. Stick with raw, raw works, raw sells.
     
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  13. BJKim

    BJKim Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    39
    Ford "B" I like the performance # on that car, but I just don't like the
    exterior. Plus, I don't want to spend $140K for Ford.
    Lambo "A" nice looking and good performance #s.
    Lotus "B" I like the Esprit, but it looks dated. Looking forward to see new one
    Honda "B" looks good with aftermarket rims, and reasonable price. Again, not
    same league as Lambo or Ferrari
    P cars "A" IMHO, The best german sports car
    Viper "B" Car looks great, but I don't really like the plastic interior.
    Ferrari "A+" IMHO, the best sounded engine, nice looking

    They are all nice cars, however if I have to choose one, then it will be a Ferrari.
     
  14. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    Ford: "B+" New GT looks very visually appealing but is very heavy compared to the classic GT40. Price is good, but not great. Car and Driver complained that the steering feels "dead" on both mules tested. Final performance isn't known, no matter what anyone here thinks. Still a good thing for the industry for sure no matter what happens.

    Lamborghini: "A" Two phenomenal cars that either lead, or tie for the lead, in both of their classes. Total home runs with more to follow (Murcie Barchetta, Gallardo SV).

    Lotus: "B-" Lotus loses a bit for letting the Esprit go so long in the tooth even though it's still a compelling sports car, but the US federalizing of the new Elise is a godsend, as is their partnership with Toyota to solve a problem that's plagued the company for decades: Fragile gearboxes/transmissions.

    Honda: "D" Total joke with how they've abandoned the NSX. They shouldn't even be listed here with the others. The JDM Type-R however is impressive for how little it's got to work with, and the S2000 is a great bargain with the new engine this year. Saved Honda from a total F rating from me.

    Porsche: "A-" The CGT is equal to, or even better than depending on who you talk to, the Enzo, and for $200k less. The GT3 equals the 360CS for HALF the price. The 996TT holds its own against the class leading Gallardo for $50k less. They may be uninvolving, but you've got to respect their accomplishment in terms of overall capability.

    Chrevrolet: "B+" The C6 vette offers 360 levels of performance, if not better, for $50k. I may not like the looks, or the materials it's made out of, but you do NOT fu@k with a vette on the track. Worse yet, the C6 Z06 will offer 500HP, in a 3,100 pound package when it arrives next year. That will literally crush anything short of an Enzo in the Ferrari lineup. Very impressive.

    Dodge: "B" F40 performance wrapped in a much higher quality product than the first version of the car. Also, kudos to Dodge for offering a turn key race car directly to consumers in the ACR.

    Ferrari: "B-" 360CS is a home run, meanwhile the 612 is a laughing stock to anyone not wearing Ferrari underoos to bed. I don't deduct any points due the 360's age, you can't blame them for not seeing the right cross Lambo has floored them with. The Enzo is fantastic, yet the 575M is destroyed eight ways from Sunday by the Murci. Very hit or miss company right now. They cannot afford to strike out with either the upcomming 600 Maranello, or the Monza after it, or dark days lie ahead. Bumped them from a C+ to a B- due to total F1 dominance, even over the Germans (BMW).

    Aston Martin: "B+" Great company, great heritage, great product line at all levels right now. Will bump to an A- if the AMV8 is as good as insiders are saying it is.
     
  15. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
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    Black Hawk, CO
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    Sunny
    Dodge, Ford, Chevy, & Honda - volume manufacturers that should not be listed because they make a sports car or two. The list should be the die hard sports car companies, which are...

    Lamborghini - "A" - the exotic "Big Dogs" have gone for the throat

    Aston Martin - "A" - standard setting exclusive luxury GT, year after year

    Ferrari - "B" - Loosing respect since the F40 and gimmicky 360CS. Bigger and more volume is not better. Philosophy has changed and the new cars show it. Jury is out.

    Porsche - "B" - The SUV kills their rating, though the products are incredible. Any volume manufacturer that makes an SUV is one thing, but a true sports car only company dipping in for profits lowers their status, no matter how much it kept them afloat, period. If I want an appliance, I buy something not listed here. If I want a pure bred and/or exclusive sports car, I don't want that company focusing resources on an SUV or a golf cart.

    Lotus - "B" - The federalized Elise is a joke, people have been buying and modifying them for years now and Elise finally woke up and realized they can share some of these profits with Toyota. Old hat. A successor to the Esprit can rekindle the company and I hope they do it.
     
  16. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Lambo- A+++++ Worlds most exotic car company, sticking to the traditions of yesterday. Bigger badder and faster than anyone else.

    Ferrari-F- Lost its vision after the 512 TR. Leave making boring daily driveable cars to Mercedes. 360Cs was promising, turned out to be a dissapointment. All upcoming projects seem even worse, starting with the 612. Relies too much on obtainable, ultra low production Enzo, to secure its name.

    Lotus-B- Still awesome after all these years, future looks promising. Not a fan of the ELise.

    Porsche A- Great power, handling, looks in true daily driveable form.

    Viper- C- great value. Styling of late dull.

    Corvette Z06- B- great value, found on every street corner.
     
  17. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
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    #14 Chiaro_Slag, Feb 10, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Uh Oh

    Time to take the Ferrari banner down from the garage. :(
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Lambo - I agree - I like the idea of Italian styling with German Engineering.

    Ferrari - B - I like the 360CS a lot. 612 needs some work. For some reason the 575/550 don't excite me (maybe I need to drive one). Let's see what the 360 replacement is. The Enzo is awesome, but unattainable.

    Porsche - B++ - So they sold out & made a mini van. I don't care. The Carrera GT is ridiculous - What a machine.

    Viper - C - Cool, but getting Tired.

    Corvette Zo6 - A+ Awesome for what it is. Affordable Power.

    Lotus - A- - Sorry, I like the Elise. :)

    Honda - B++ - Good cars, need a solid replacement for NSX.
     
  19. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    Ferrari : B+ for not racing the Enzo but the Maser instead. Everything else looks good.
    The Maranello is amazing , is very fast, sounds really good.

    THe Scaglietti looks good too ( although i still need to see the interior up close ) , will probably be the driver car of that market ( not saying much here as the MB/Bentley surely arent..).

    THe 360 CS is one of the most exciting car i have ever heard ,seen..read about. Need to confirm this by april after driving one..

    The Spider is still amazingly hot and everything i want in a soft top car..

    The Enzo is the best Hypercar there is..


    Lamborghini : C+

    Still not hot for both cars. Are very fast but are AWD and arent as fun to drive as a Ferrari from what i have read.
    Warming up to the Gallardo though but in Black only ..
    Interior is very boring..even more than the exterior.


    Porsche : B-

    Carrera GT must be amazing to drive but looks like a big boxster..Not special enough.Love the sound though but would have preferred a more osé style..

    Turbo is a great car but thats it..not exciting at all..
     
  20. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    23,484
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    I will only talk about what I see forsale. I have not driven these cars. I can
    only go by looks, cost, and magazine articles to determine value.

    It appears that the cooking pots are getting very hot in Detroit. I do not
    think any car is going to stack up to what is supposedly coming out of Detroit in the next few years. Most of the following cars will be introduced within
    a year or two.

    The rumor mill:

    625 bhp Corvette ? 500 bhp Z06 ~ Chevrolet "always" updates the car
    a few years later after introduction.
    Next generation Ford Gt ( the one that is supposed to be beyond 500 )
    Next generation Viper Coupe
    Chrysler ME 412 ( will they build it ) ?



    These cars appear to be bargains compared to all of the exotic cars
    available (today). Yes the other side of the pond will have to answer
    the challenge. This is only my opinion. All the Detroit cars have poor
    interiors. Is it worth the premium for a real leather interior and exclusivity ?
     
  21. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    625 bhp Corvette ? - No. This is the "Blue Devil" that was mistaken by Autoweek for a consumer program, this mule is actually the C6-R dev program.

    500 bhp Z06 - Yes.

    Next Generation Ford GT - No. Pure rumor, spread entirely by James on this board. More vapor than even the blue devil.

    Chrysler ME412 - No. MB has no intention of building this car.
     
  22. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3

    Ferrari-F- Lost its vision after the 512 TR. Leave making boring daily driveable cars to Mercedes. 360Cs was promising, turned out to be a dissapointment. All upcoming projects seem even worse, starting with the 612. Relies too much on obtainable, ultra low production Enzo, to secure its name.

    Lotus-B- Still awesome after all these years, future looks promising. Not a fan of the ELise.

    Hmmm. I'm not going to rate these cars, but, if you leave the F40 & F50 out of the equation, Allan has a good point. I simply wouldn't buy an exotic that doesn't give me a visceral thrill just looking at it, and those later Ferraris just don't.

    I can buy speed, handling, power & reliability, for much less in any number of autos. -Mercedes, beamers, and such.

    And that's why I bought the TR. It put it all together, and I love it.

    Of, course I'm starting to look for a F40... :)
     
  23. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Mako
    The person who told me about the next generation of the Ford GT is the Chief Engineer of the Ford GT. Standing next to us was the person who designed The Ford GT, and the VP. of the Ford Motor Co. who is head of the Ford GT program. That was last Aug. He also said that the Ford GT beat a 360 around Laguna by 7 seconds. At the time I posted these remarks. He also said with a smile "The Ford GT has 500hp. measured somewhere." I took that to mean it had more measured at the rear wheels. The C&D test makes it look like he was correct. I very much doubt that he was making up the part about the next generation Ford GT or that he was engineering it to be faster than any street legal car Ferrari makes including the Enzo.
     
  24. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
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    Rick
    have you ever driven a 360 CS? it seems that those who have driven the stradale say it is spectacular! not just a gimmick to extend the life of the 360 another year. a lot of relatively minor improvements (when viewed separately) almost magically come together to make the stradale a blast to drive. i've heard comments from long time knowledgeable ferrari people who say the stradale is the best road car ferrari has ever made. i personally spoke to a guy with a long history in ferrari's race program and he told me the stradale is the first ferrari since the F40 that made the hair on his neck stand up :) jean todt (big shot in ferrari's F1 racing team) was so impressed with the stradale that he insisted on receiving the first one they produced. those of us who are buying the stradale are not stupid (arguably) so why do you think we would all be fooled into paying big bucks for a car that is just a gimmick?

    btw, i should have mine by the end of this week. i've owned three 360 modenas over the past few years (absolutely loved them) and i can't imagine that i will not be thrilled with the stradale :)

    as for grades... i'll give ferrari an A- for the stradale (i'm a bit irked about the discrepancy in the reported weight, HP, etc. versus reality).

    but i give the ferrari dealers a D- for their lack of enthusiasm, courtesy, knowledge, helpfulness, usefulness, reliability, motivation, professionalism, honesty, friendliness, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.
     
  25. AJS328

    AJS328 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 23, 2003
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    Never underestimate these manufacturers. I remember reading an article by Paul Frere back in 1993. The Porsche Boxster concept had just been introduced and he said that no such car would ever be made. Obviously the production Boxster differs considerably from the concept car but he said that a Porsche Boxster would never happen, period. Oops!
     
  26. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    Sounds like its pretty easy to be a FCar dealer. You know if the people want the car there going to buy it regardless of how you act. Not a good attitude.
     
  27. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2002
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    Impala -
    Your comments are a good example of why this is becoming a pay site. Useless comments by wannabees. Everyone is allowed to express his/her opinion, but you have chimed in several times, as you tend to do, on the same subject.

    Go back and read the NSX thread (we've had a lot of these lately) in the Other Italian section. Why would you "pity" 6 F1 Constructor's Championships? Has Chevy accomplished this?

    If your knowledge and experience of driving a Ferrari or an NSX stretches beyond this forum and C&D magazine I'd be surprised.

    For me passion for Ferrari's products doesn't prevent me from appreciating fine automobiles from other makes. There's no need to show your ignorance of Honda's history in racing (or grammar) in this manner. You're starting to live up to your avatar.

    Challenge
     
  28. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    P.M.
     

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