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GT3 vs CS vs CSL

Discussion in '360/430' started by thomas_b, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    Sport Auto Supertest - data from some P forums
     
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  3. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
    622
    Cambridgeshire, Engl
    Full Name:
    Robin
    I have a CSL, have had a 360Modena, am getting and have driven a CS and have 'raced' a 360 Modena against a GT3 for about an hour through France.

    I just don't feel good about these figues. No way will a CSL beat a standard 360 let alone a CS. A number of FCar drivers will confirm after this morning that the CSL is quick, very quick, but it just doesn't go that fast and even with tricky Pilot Cup tyres (which I have) will it out corner like it would have to to do what these figures say. The CSL does have really fantastic brakes but again these figures don't bear that out.

    The GT3 on the road cannot lose a 360 and I would in no way claim I was the better driver.

    This just doesn't make sense!
     
  4. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
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    Allan
    In every test, the 360Cs seems to really slow down on the 0-100mph run. I wonder how much of a difference the tires make between the Gt3 and the Gt3 rs. The Gt3 Rs tied the Gallardo at Hockenheim.
     
  5. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
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    Los Altos Hills, CA
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    Gary B.
    ALL the 0 - 60 times seem slow to me. Can't speak to the other figures.
     
  6. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Robin
    These two cars are shipped in europe with the same tyre
     
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  8. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
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    South England
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    Mark Collins
    I drove a new GT3 on a track on Friday and I have to say what an awesome car, it had the Ceramic brake upgrade which were stunning although smoking after a 15 minute run! sadly Wazza hasn't trusted me with the keys to his CS!

    There was a CSL there on the day which was quick bit IMHO not up there with the GT3
     
  9. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    Joe Mansion
    The day a Ferrari will post good numbers in a german magazine is still far away..
     
  10. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    Just a quick note:

    The Michelin Sport Cup tires on the CSL are pretty much shaved r-compound race tires, hence the reason for the highest skidpad rating and the lowest Ring time for that car.

    I was puzzled by the numbers too until I looked at the tires used, and that explains it. The P Zero Corsas while far more capable than your average street performance tire aren't in the league of the Sport Cup.

    Here's more details on the Sport Cup if you're interested (great great tire by the way):

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+Cup
     
  11. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I suspect you are right, the Sport Cup are superior to the Corsas. HOWEVER, I doubt enough to explain those numbers. BUT look at the conditions!! The Tarmac was 34'C vs 17'C!!! That's like hot vs. cool... huge difference... any reasonably soft tires would be sticking much better at 34'C!! And further the HP will be upped by the warmer temps.

    I agree that all those 0-60 numbers are disappointing.
     
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  13. bumboola

    bumboola Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2003
    625
    Thomas,

    Comparing test results from different cars on different days by different(?) drivers is basically worthless. One thing I am very curious about are lap times taken at the Ring. Do they clear the track for these tests? Every video taken there that I have seen shows heavy traffic, which can obviously screw up any test results.

    There are some magazines I trust to show unbiased test results and some magazines that I don't. Sport Auto definitely falls into the latter, and IMO is one of the worst offenders.

    Paul
     
  14. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    It is the same guy who drives the car - racing driver called Horst von Saurma – so numbers can be compared to some degree assuming that he is a P car guy

    they run the tests with other cars on the track

    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup are pretty aggressive tires - the car with 3,054 lbs, 360 bhp, and SMG gearbox is a nice package – but it is still surprising that is it up there – the tarmac temp. is a good explanation (PZeros stink when it is cold) – Brian I thought HP decreases when it gets hot; no?

    Looks like they messed with the GT3RS - with 381bhp, and about 20kg lighter it should not be that much faster in acceleration than the GT3 – lots of discussion in the P forums

    The numbers indicate again that the GT3 and the CS are equal in performance

    Interesting for me are the lift numbers for the CS - -21kg????? – if I interpret this right this indicates that a wing is necessary

    Can’t explain why the CS doesn’t do well in the lane change
     
  15. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
    622
    Cambridgeshire, Engl
    Full Name:
    Robin
    I thought hp went up in cold too.

    I think the -21kg is bogus as well and should be +21kg as the car does have a wing in the diffuser.

    To me none of these numbers make sense. I also know some profeesional drivers who will do everything they can to make some cars look great and I doubt he's trying to make Porsche look bad.

    In the end I just can't see much in these figures that gives me any sense of validity
     
  16. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Absolutely... I shouldn't post when I am sleepy... I was commenting on the higher atmospheric pressure increasing HP slightly... but then I noticed the air temperature which would probably lower it more than the pressure upped it... and completely botched the cut n' paste. Sheesh. I should proof-read!

    I doubt the net had much effect on HP, but the higher temps would definitely be bad for HP.

    I, too, found those numbers bewildering... lift in the rear of a CS seems highly unlikely... lift on the front might be plausible, though still surprising... anyone know how they got those figures? Do they have a wind tunnel??

    Agreed... overall, more seems bogus than real in all that.
     
  17. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe Mansion
    someone explain how the RS is that much faster than the reg GT3 around Hockenheim ?
     
  18. Aircon

    Aircon Nine Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
    93,925
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    Peter
    The driver took a shortcut. He took a page out of the book of the Gallardo testers.
     
  19. noony

    noony F1 Veteran

    Nov 25, 2003
    5,903
    Seoul
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    Johnathan
    GT3RS is fantastic, should be riding in one soon. Rumours that the engines are really making more than 381 hp. Indeed, one here was dyno'd at 397hp. Plus it's lighter than a normal GT3 too.
     
  20. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
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    Jean
    Except for the 360 CS the M3 CSL is a very impressive ..(great handling and its fast).

    But like Amenasce said the Germans always find a way to put they cars on top the Ferrari.
     

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