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GT4 Build Numbers - Solving the Mystery

Discussion in '308/328' started by NoGoSlow, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior
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    Mark Jacks
    Sadly, I'm not in the lucky sperm club and haven't won the lottery so I'll have to do the old 9-to-5 (or 7-to-7) for a while longer. Of course, when people hear I have a Ferrari they tend to presume I am in the wealthy category.
     
  2. absostone

    absostone Formula 3
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    yea I know the feeling. Some interesting posts here though. All this out of sequence Builds is making me nuts!!!
     
  3. Ian Bishop

    Ian Bishop Karting

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    Still in alignment with an earlier theory. The 3-digit number is not a 'build sequence' number, just a stamped chassis number. Also, aligns with likelihood that the early 400 stamped chassis were all for the RHD models. Assume they ordered 100 of them 400 - 499 and got them all delivered. They just grabbed the chassis from the stack as needed. The VIN defines the starting build sequence (tho' rolling off the assembly line would be out of sequence based on special order items, or access to paint etc...).
     
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  4. absostone

    absostone Formula 3
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    So technically the vins are out of order. ?
     
  5. absostone

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  6. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior
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    At the end of the day, the VIN is the permanent record. That's what you need whether you're looking for factory records or car registrations.

    Build numbers are just an interesting factory / warehouse artifact, a method for grouping parts assigned to a particular build sheet. It wouldn't matter if they were random numbers for each kit, although the guy walking around looking for that random batch of parts might curse the scheduler for not laying them out in sequential batches in the warehouse.
     
  7. miked

    miked Formula Junior

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    As a technical point no GT4 has a "VIN" number, they were not dictated by law until 1981 when the 17-character VIN came into being. Previously they were a "Serial #" or "Chassis #" depending on how your state phrased it. The VIN was preceded by the 12 character HIN (Hull Identification Number) for boats in 1972. Both where to create a national standardized format for tracking vehicle history for theft, accident and ownership.

    I think that Ian Bishop has a pretty good handle on it. Ferrari could have ordered interiors in bulk from the supplier (Ferrari or external) with a # assigned to indicate the particular combination of components (color of seat, color of piping, color of carpet etc.) and then they were pulled from the warehouse as needed for a particular chassis build. The same build number was used on other components specified to make the car as ordered. 1970's Italian car manufacturing was nowhere near as efficient as today's Toyota plant (or even a 1970's Toyota plant).
     
  8. absostone

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    yes the terminology should be Chassis number # 09966 and Build Number 43. Ok but are the Chassis numbers in order of build or the build number in order of build?
    C 7202 is Build #1 . So being even number chassis C 7204 should be Build #2. But I think we have a C7220 with Build #5. IIRC
     
  9. absostone

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    so heres another thing, why the BN on the headlight buckets and brackets? the inner door frame lip etc? weren't the body panels with the car anyway? but then again maybe the buckets and doors removed for painting and the number was to keep track of the BUILD. but it doesn't explain the coil platform or the headlight brackets. and also I think there is a number under the counsel. I have a feeling the BN is accurate and the Chassis is out of sequence
     
  10. guygowrie

    guygowrie Formula 3
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    Yes, headlight number matches the door panel
     
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  11. absostone

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    yea that's my feeling is that the cars chassis would be stamped when assembled and painted, but this is F we are dealing with. The out of sequence the other guys posted is starting to make sense that the cars were in batches and and then got out of sequence as they came into the factory.
     
  12. 2281GT

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  13. absostone

    absostone Formula 3
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    Thx Markus.
     
  14. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    The build number identifies a chassis-body assembly (and all parts adjusted to it) before a chassis number is dedicated to it. The chassis and body suppliers build their part and someone else fits them together under a build number to allow identification/billing etc, then Ferrari adds a driveline and completes the final assembly according to a chassis number. The chassis number (now VIN) is usually created when an order for a vehicle (including all the options) has been received and all details to be built into the car are known (options, color, trim, market).
    The build number, especially for hand-made cars, is important so that - as an example - trim panels, doors or headlight pods that need adjustment to an individual body can be adjusted, removed for trimming/painting etc, assembled as a subset, then re-fitted to the correct body further down the line.
    Drivetrains get built under their own number too, then added to the vehicle as required by the chassis number = taking into consideration final market conditions (EU, CH, J, US, AUS,...).
    So, there is not necessary linear relationship between build numbers and chassis numbers, as there isn't necessarily one between engine and gearbox number and chassis number.
    Especially for LHD and RHD chassis body fabrication, it is likely that batches of each were made according to expected sales and then adjusted according to real demand, therefore "upsetting" the logical linear order.
     
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  15. afterburner

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    #964 - 12210 - n/a - Carl Stemmler; Schaffhausen, Switzerland (1976 Euro LHD French delivery, Blue / Blue-Beige)
     
  16. absostone

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    That is a great post. Seams a combination of the other posts on this thread. So how did u cone up with this info,? So you're thinking the build numbers are in order and the chassis numbers are out of order correct? I.e. The build numbers are in order
     
  17. afterburner

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    I am working in the car industry on the r&d side, which includes industrialisation and production processes.
    The build numbers are effectively in the order the body/chassis units are built. How theses units are attributed to VINs is the result of dealer/customer orders.
    Legally, a vehicle only begins to exist as such (virtually first) by the time a chassis number is created - usually when the dealer orders a car.
    Once this chassis number is pressed into a chassis/body unit, you get a specific physical car with it's own color, trim, options, markets specs etc. Before that point, the chassis/body unit is basically a heap of nicely shaped metal :)
    The build number from then on serves as described before to identify specific parts that may get removed for further processing before being refitted later on. For non-precision largely hand-built cars this is crucial for refitting because certain parts won't fit another build number. For painted parts that get removed after painting for completion - doors as an example - it's crucial they get onto the same car or else you may see slight color differences.
    With todays ultra-precise interchangeable parts to my knowledge only painted parts and leather trim need to go back where they may have been removed from during the process.
    And it's tracked electronically of course, not with Giovanni's crayon...:)
     
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  18. absostone

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    BRILLIANT! and you are actually in the car industry. To me this sums it up! anyone else care to comment?
     
  19. 19055

    19055 Formula Junior

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    I find this most interesting. I guess this applies also for other models ?My euro 308 vetro (#19055) has assembly number 3, which I find really a cool feature. I tried to get more specific info regarding the combination of chassis-and assembly number (the chassis number is quite a bit away from the assembly number) but no luck so far. My car has the pretty common colors rosso chiaro/black interior/red carpet.
     
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  20. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Yes :)
     
  21. absostone

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    Ok something is bugging me. we agree the build numbers are in order but the chassis numbers are not ?
     
  22. afterburner

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    Build number in order of chassis/body units being fabricated
    Chassis number in order of cars being ordered
     
  23. absostone

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    Awesome thx. Has anyone found a build number stamped on the actual chassis ?
     
  24. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

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    As a technical point, you're wrong! Or, to be fair, not entirely right. Some late GT4s do indeed have a VIN. It starts 'ZDFBB01'. Note the D second character which represents Dino whereas Ferrari VINs usually start ZFF.

    Jonathan
     
  25. afterburner

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