Still the metal work is beautiful
is your 1750 a Zagato bodied car? Running a supercharger? Mate has one in Melbourne such a pretty pre war car,very lucky guy to own one,
Heck no, mines a 1971 coupe with the same name (ripped off from your mates model). Still I believe other than GTA's the 1750's are the best coupes. Great fun little cars to drive. So I fully understand Italian rust ... Pete
oh ok. I've had 3 x 2000GTV the last car I should have kept,new it from new,light blue,tan trim,10.5 Borgo pistons,never smashed and from new had the 5 star wheels,it was a darling,only sold it due to lack of garage space reg # LPD200.
Here's a thought for all of the purists out there decrying the "destruction" of GTE's to make replicars - considering your obvious taste, sensitivity to history, & desire to preserve the originality of these wonderful machines - why don't you simply make a blanket offer of, say, $250K for any GTE dead or alive? Certainly you should shortly own every one ever produced & heretofore be revered as the caretaker & preserver of this most important of Ferrari model series... Forever to be know as the benefactor of 4 place Ferraris... Please. Let's get real. A show of hands - how many current GTE owners wouldn't trade their cars straight up for that 275 GTB which cost less new? Even if the 275 were lying on its roof? Underwater? Any hands up? I didn't think so... We all know it's about the money. People buy GTE's because they can't afford GTO's! I've driven lovely 2+2's & can assure those of you who haven't that you're missing little. They're slow, ill handling, uncomfortable, take too long to warm up, & one bad shift can cost you the equivalent of a new BMW. Uh, now that I think about it, I guess most of that applies to the 275 as well as the GTO - EXCEPT - they are stunningly beautiful! The (presumptuous) assumption that the GTO's icon status is solely attributable to its track prowess or rarity is preposterous! C'mon - there were 36(!) of 'em! That barely qualifies as a low production car by Ferrari standards. Think about it - 12 GTO's for every P4. Were they vastly more successful than SWB's? No, but they sure are cuter. Boys, it's time we admit it, nobody gives a good gaad d@mn about the wallflower with a great personality but the cheerleaders' dance cards are always full. Failing the emergence of the GTE fairy waving quarter million dollar vouchers, I suspect that the wailing of the "faithful" will continue to fall on deaf ears. In fact, I am today creating a new rule that states that only those among us who have never lusted after, dated, or married a woman with - putting it delicately so as not to offend the sensibilities of the pure - ahem, "enhanced" equipment shall be entitled to disrespect replica/recreation Ferraris as long as they are not passed off as original! Yr fthfl svt, Jim
Then buy something else. Not every Ferrari is a good car to everybody, but somebody else will enjoy it as it is. Buy a Lancia, FIAT or even English car like a Lotus Cortina or Escort BDA, etc. Sorry I also think unnecessary operations on any person is even more pathetic than replicating cars. I may be baised in my viewpoint because my wife has no such need to be enhanced. It all comes back to the selfish generation comments somebody made earlier ... and any man that requests his partner be enhanced should be ashamed of himself. Risking her health so he can have something he currently does not ... why don't you have the operation instead! Pete
I wouldn't. What would I do with a 275 - a bad one at that? It is a pretty boring car built at the time when everything was sloping downwards. And ugly. Especially the wooden dash that looks like it was ripped out of a Mercedes... It's not even a member of the 250-family! Besides, repeating on an on how replicas should not be passed on as real cars is complete BS. There is no point. Where do you find an idiot who buys a $1M, $5M or $30M car without doing any homework? Best wishes, Kare
Kare, Greed is everywhere, so don't be surprised. Otherwise: why don't you tell us how you really feel?
OK, apparently we have 2 brave souls defending the honor of GTE's, Pete & Kare. It would seem that neither is willing to take the $250K challenge I espoused earlier, rather preferring to continue berating those who are following their dream at the expense of the available stock of unmolested 2+2's. Pete - while your motivation may be pure in your own mind, your blanket condemnation of those who choose to alter their personal property to fit their own needs & desires disturbingly smacks of the same sort of "holier than thou" thinking that is polarizing the planet along idiotic religious lines. Think the bible/koran based vice laws that have dragged the Western hemisphere into a death spiral of narcoterrorists versus the self righteous christian soldiers of god. And Kare - I'm afraid that I (& I suspect an overwhelmingly vast majority of the contributors to this forum) have a tough time seriously considering the opinions of anyone who can wax lyrically regarding the beauty of a GTE while denigrating 275's for their looks & increased displacement. To me, GTE's look like a Vega on steroids but the drive doesn't quite meet that standard... Yr fthfl svt, Jim
The "great debate" is in another thread. I love to see pix of stuff being built, and marvel at (some of) the craftsmanship. How about more pix????
I agree with Psk about the breasts........sweetest girl I know (friend of my daughters) went under the knife for her new husband, I thought "WTF???" She was beautiful before. Still is I suppose..... I agree with Ed Niles too more pics! Of either thing.......
Hi I would feel money is not the thing that gives you a god given right to anything, but it does give you access to them. And if I have the money today to build something or make something or destroy something then that is my right to do that. I might be wrong or even crazy to do something like what you have all referred to such as over - restore, replace or replicate but that is MY RIGHT. I personally have no problem with replica's, I just would want to own one, for me the beauty of a car such as a GTO or SWB or any great Ferrari is its history. When you consider the extra value that is ascribed to race victories, celebrity owners and other factors, people obviously agree with me. Myself personally, I dont like the GTE, that is not to say it is a bad car or anything, but if I had the cash I would want a GTO or a SWB and hey that is my personal right. As for taking a GTE or whatever and turning it into a replica to each his own. I would probably err on keeping these cars original. Just my 2 cents.
Mate I'm not a rich man, I'm just a car enthusiast ... otherwise I'd take up your challenge (and I can tell you if I get a chance to purchase a 250GTE 2+2, or other Ferrari that needs a restoration, I will). Presently I am restoring an Alfa Romeo 1750GTV that most people consider way too far gone to bother fixing, but I'm getting there and this car will oneday be finished AND 100% original in specification. Why am I restoring this car?, because I want to enjoy driving a good car like a 1750GTV is that is exactly how they were back in the early 70's (and late 60's). This is why it will not be modified ... all modifications eventually make all cars drive the same, and boring like modern cars. This is also why oneday people will get great enjoyment out of driving a so called boring 2+2 Ferrari, if there are any left, just to experience what they actually drove like. Variety is the spice of life, not modifing everything to suit ones current thinking (which btw changes over time). Also I'm no religious nutter, but I do not understand why people call themselves Ferrari enthusiasts while holding a grinder in there hands and destroying one ... they are most definitely not. Best Pete
You are missing the point. My point is that when we start bashing these cars, they'll all turn into crap. This used to be a forum for enthusiasts but lately, I think, it has turned into something else. What comes to Pininfarina's designs in general, I find most of them mediocre at best and think that Pininfarina's rise to dominate position was very unfortunate for car design in general and Ferrari in particular. I also think that Pininfarina's exclusive contract with Ferrari really changed what Ferrari was to be. Their skill was not up to the standard of Ferrari and I think it is very unfortunate we will never know what Ghia, Touring and Vignale plus others would have produced had they been allowed to work for Ferrari in period of 1954-1965.
Kare, I'd have to reluctantly agree with you on that one, albeit that your timeframe is somewhat off IMO. Most of the earlier Pininfarina designs are not very exciting and somewhat plump looking compared with the contemporary designs of the others you mentioned, specifically those of Vignale (also with exceptions) One cannot make a blanket statement like this without listing a multitude of exceptions, but I do find that the earlier Pininfarina were somewhat of a hit and miss effort. In the range of succesful designs, also Scaglietti deserves a place. However, one cannot deny that in the above mentioned period PF came up with some absolutely striking designs. In the earlier period the King Loepold car comes to mind (preceeded the E-Type by how many years?), the 250LM and GTO '64, and the 275 GTB, all of course according to my taste. OTOH, Vignale for example was way ahead wwith the beautiful barchetta's they produced on various chassis, and I too would liked to have seen how that line of thought would have developed. There are so many others....
Vignale and Zagato pushed the envelop much more then PF ever did, but that also meant they got it wrong more often than PF did. I think most of the 212 designs by Vignale are much more interesting than the 212 by Pininfarina, but in a true esthetical sense, the PF wins it. Same goes for the 250 GT PF Coupe. To me a textbook example of understated elegance. However, I do agree with kare that it is unfortunate that Ferrari limited herself to PF, albeit that the more recent examples of Vignale (330 GT Shooting Brake) and Zagato (348 Elaborazione) weren´t too pleasing for the eye.
I like the 348 from Zagato a lot better than the standard one, and the 550 Zagato is just breathtaking. PF had their best work done by Fioaravanti, with timeless designs, recognised by most, if not all. Most PF designs after the 3X8 were of a lesser quality, with, IMO, exceptions for the 550 and Enzo. I digress....
I tend to disagree with Kare and others on their points of view on Pininfarina. Vignale designs would not have stood the test of time. The reason why we revere them today is because the designers left us with so few creations. The rarity is what makes us see the ugly of "tits in front of headlights"; i.e., 340 Mexico or the doubling of the rear bumpers (212 Geneva Coupe) as charming. john
I have to agree that many Vignale, Ghia and Touring creations for Ferrari have stood the test of time, retaining their currency as balanced and functional designs. However, I believe that the high water mark of Ferrari design has usually been a Pininfarina creation, most especially the designs of Leonardo Fioravanti, such as the Dino, 365 GTB/4, BB and 3x8 series. I am less impressed with some more recent PF work, such as the 550/575 Maranello and the 612 Scaglietti. Like it or not, Pininfarina has become practically synonymous with Ferrari design, if for no other reason than the prolific output of PF on Ferrari's behalf. Taken as a whole, the Pininfarina design work for Ferrari is unparalleled both in its quality and its variety. Fred
I think that Fioravanti had one great idea which he used on Daytona: drawing the side profile with a single line from c-pillar to the tip of the nose is brilliant. I don't see much in his other designs but have huge respect for him designing the Daytona. Most designers - especially today - work for decades and achieve nothing.
Cars should always be viewed at their own timeframe. For me say the design of a 212 Inter of 1952 is not very different from a Chevrolet, which is why I am not jumping up and down about it. Vignale, for one, was always looking a way out, and really hit the spot a few times. Pininfarina - on the other hand - made several outstanding racing cars at the same time (1953-54) and a few striking consepts a little alter (1955-57), so it might be the plain looks on road cars may have been created on purpose. Maybe they wanted the road cars to look plain so people would buy them for daily drivers!
And John, I have to lean towards Kare's position. Many non-PF cars are quite beautiful, not because they are rare but because they offered a different (often promising) design view. Like Kare, I wish they'd had a chance to go further with their designs. Now we are left with PF and a rather staid line of work. Where is breakthrough design today? Nowhere as far as I can see.... An exception is Jim's P4/5 - he and PF pulled off a nice car! DOes this suggest that Ferrari is limiting PF too much? maybe, but PF has always had a conservative design sense..... I think that they have also tended to enjoy a higher build quality when compared to the others...
