Help! Have I destroyed my engine (348)?

Don't guess! Get or do a proper diagnosis. There is alot of stuff in there that can fool you 1) water pump, 2) timing chain, 3) timing belt idler pullies, 4) even seen a TDC sensor hitting the wheel. Which expensive guess would you like to make? If you are going to do a DIY'er and you are not sure then at least pay the 70 bucks to get a mechanic to give you his best guess diagnosis before you go at it. If it is time to change everything and do a major anyway then for get the diagnosis and go to town. However, if you have the dreaded timing chain bearing problem you will be very dissapointed when the noise is still there after your major.

 

Did you check the belt guides? They are the ones that are just above the intake cams. You should be able to see them with the caps off. Make sure that they are facing they proper way. The bottom of the shoe on the guide should be facing down and toward the exhaust cam. Look to see if the allen bolt on the front of the cam cover that runs through the guide is tightend properly to hold it in place. It could be that one of them is loose and when the belt vibrates you are hearing the guide hit the cam cover caps.

 

gredinger - You have mail

MW

 

Before you tear into it,
I would pressurize each cylinder to get an idea of where I had damage.

 

The owner manual of 348 mentions to change cambelt every 2 years...
Sorry about your problem...

 

Every 2 years? Do what? You must be looking at a different 348 manual than mine. Mine says 52,500 miles and doesn't say a thing about years. I doubt seriously that this gentleman's problem has arisen because he didn't change out the cam belt often enough. There are still many 348's out there (89 and 90 included) that are running on the original belt and bearings.

 

What? Make sure someone who knows what they are doing plays with your car. 1) Belts break but rarely "jump" without slck in the belt system...was there any
2) how di you get the belt corrected w/o taking the engine out of the car?
3) If the engine was not out the belt has not been moved.
4) If engine out and belt slipped any mechanic shouldbe able to do a leak down test and not leave you guessing.

Something does not sound right! Something is rotten in Denmark.

 

They won't be running for long ... , idiots!

Pete

 

gredinger,

Alot of what you have posted makes no sense.

1. Washing a car will not (should not) cause a belt to jump a tooth, if that is actually what happened.

2. To move a belt one tooth you need to remove a heck of a lot more than the little inspection cover, thus this also does not add up. I believe the 348 has an inspection hatch through from the drivers compartment, but even so usually the engine comes out for this work.

3. Also you cannot LOOK at a belt and learn anything (other than whether it is oil damaged), you have to replace based on age and mileage.

4. The original noise (assuming belt did not jump tooth) sounded like a water pump bearing or even a fan belt ... they can make horrible noises.

5. If it has jumped a tooth, there is no way in hell that I would run the motor until NEW belts have been professionally installed ... but from your later posts it sounds like the heads have to come off and bent valves replaced anyway ... unless you are extremely lucky.

6. Belts DO not just jump a tooth, something causes the belt to do that and it is extremely rare, although I have worked on a v6 Alfa Romeo engine that did jump a tooth on the dizzi pully.

Don't muck with those belts, use a screw driver on their edge (unless replacing) as you will stuff the belt ... experts only should play with those.

Good luck, but something does not make sense?

Pete

 

yes every 2 years ans maximum of 40.000 KM...so 25.000 miles....
ok 2 years is really a short time...but every 4 years is a minimum and 40.000 km a maximum.
it's really too important you have to do it, otherwise...big trouble could appear...

 

The best way to determine the source of metal on metal noises coming from the engine of a Ferrari is to start it up in order to find the location of the noise.

Do this as many times as you deem necessary, and pay no heed to the sound of valves smacking into pistons or the sump sucking up metal shavings.

Here's a few words from the wise:

If it sounds bad, it is.

If you are not mechanically inclined enough to know the difference between valve/piston contact and noisy water pump bearings, don't start the car. Instead, trailer it to a mechanic for a fix because:

That's what you will have to do anyway.

 

Give me a break. I'd rate the risks of jerking off your cam belt and replacing every two years MUCH greater than a belt skipping a tooth. ANY time you start pulling off cam belts, etc., you have a decent risk that the new ones will 1) be faulty, or 2) they won't be installed correctly.

Besides all of that, a cam belt change every 2 years makes no economic sense:

Cam belt change No cam belt change

Year 2 $5000 $0
Year 4 $5000 $0
Year 6 $5000 $0
Year 8 $5000 $0
Year 10 $5000 $0

Total $25,000 $0

OK, after 10 years with no cam belt change, SUPPOSE you break the belt and have to do a complete rebuild at $12-$15K. Get my point?

Do you tear off the roof of your house and replace every 3 years so that you MIGHT avoid a 100-year rain penetrating it and as a consequence, having a large homeowners insurance claim?

Do you do a complete service on your home's air conditioner every 2 months so that you can avoid buying a new one some day?

Do you have the jewelry store tear apart your watch and put new parts in it every 6 months so that it won't break?

The "change the belt" every 2-3 years is Ferarri's way of feeding their shops with YOUR money. Changing the belts this often is EXCESSIVE AND OBSESSIVE.

 

I think every 3-4 years is reasonable, I do my F40 every 2 years just to be safe though. If you can't afford the maintenance, you cannot afford the repairs!

 

Who said I can't afford it?

 

Because you choose to gamble rather than maintain, it gives the impression you are a tight-wad or cant afford it. Cant think of another reason.

 

Your definition of a "gamble" may or may not be what my definition is. Your definition of proper maintenance may or may not be what my definition is. Thank you, however, for sharing your opinion.

 

I would have a second opinion on this one. Sounds very strange that the belt would just jump. I would have everything checked..from the tensioners, to the water pump, to checking the cams for binding. Something has to have caused this to happen. Are you 100% sure you did not drop somthing down inside the timimg cover when you pulled the inspection cap off?

Please keep us updated as to what caused this to happen. Don't by the Ferrari thing that it "just happends"

Tom

 

As my tech says, "If you hear a funny noise, bring it in, because when you hear how much it costs, it won't be funny!"

 

Well said.

I think this guy has done the math and also reasonably decided an acceptable risk to benifit ratio that he can live with.

On another note, I'm sure Ferrari would mandate a bi-annual belt change if they could convince enough people that it needs to be done...not that regular maintenance should not be done, but I would be interested in exactly how many 12s have been trashed by belt breakage due to varying degrees of non-maintenance vs how many properly serviced engines have broken down vs numbers produced.

 

I personally know one one cam belt failure ina TR after about 35k miles without a service. But, it had a leaking cam seal that had being soaking the belt for some time that contributed to the failure. The owner had been warned by FOA that the cam seal was leaking, but he did nothing and it ended up costing him big. I go with cam belt change every 5 years regardless of mileage.

 

Just chiming in--thought I'd share this old archived thread:

Has anyone had first-hand cambelt failure experience?
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/199125.html