Help with leaky F1 actuator shift boot | FerrariChat

Help with leaky F1 actuator shift boot

Discussion in '348/355' started by 0.0.1.99, Nov 12, 2013.

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  1. 0.0.1.99

    0.0.1.99 Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2012
    423
    Carolinas
    Full Name:
    Ken
    #1 0.0.1.99, Nov 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    During my PPI, my 1998 GTS was diagnosed with a leaking shift shaft boot on the F1 assembly. After removing the protective heat shield and forward engine cradle cross-member, I found that the connecting bolt rubbed against the cradle and tore a hole in the shift boot.

    If I replace the shift boot, while I am in there I think I may also replace the sealing ring could reduce or eliminate the leak. Note the leakage seems to be coming from the torn boot and not from the overflow tube which is forward of the leak area.

    I have not seen the boot and sealing ring replacement covered in any detail on Fchat so I would appreciate any feedback on the actuator boot removal and reinstallation process. This was recommended by another owner:

    Parts from Ricambi:
    146306 sealing ring
    169192 F1 shift boot / gearbox control rod boot

    Step 1: Cut and remove the torn shift boot
    Step 2: Remove the joining bolt which connects the actuator to the gearbox (in the pic)
    Step 3: Remove 4 actuator attachment bolts & release actuator from control rod
    Step 4: Pop the sealing ring out and replace
    Step 5: Replace shift boot, connecting bolt and mount actuator

    I am not certain that Step 2 will be necessary and there could be an additional step between Steps 3-4. Once the boot is replaced, the tear will probably happen again of course unless I can increase the gap between the boot and cross-member. Thanks for any thoughts or feedback.
    Ken
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  2. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    Rubbing is possibly due to failed motor mount(s)?
    When they fail, the assembly rides lower in the chassis.
     
  3. 0.0.1.99

    0.0.1.99 Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2012
    423
    Carolinas
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Here is an update:

    I removed the connecting bolt inside the shift boot but I cannot back the actuator assembly off of the control arm in order to replace the boot and seal. There is just not enough clearance to drop the actuator after remving the four bolts which attach it to the side if the engine. It is squeezed between the engine block and motor mount with the bent hydraulic lines leading to the F1 pump further restricting the ability to release the actuator from the bracket.

    I do not understand how the actuator can be removed from the engine block without completely removing the engine from the support frame completely (or removing all he hydraulic lines from the pump which I am unwiling to do).
     
  4. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Ken,

    The boot is just for dust protection right? The seal is the issue?
     
  5. 0.0.1.99

    0.0.1.99 Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2012
    423
    Carolinas
    Full Name:
    Ken
    #5 0.0.1.99, Nov 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think that is correct.

    Turns out the Workshop manual vol.2 covers this operation pretty well starting on page D64. It describes a SD-1 centering procedure that "should be followed whenever the gearbox rod actuator is disconnected (e.g. gearbox overhaul, actuator replacement)" as well as admits to the tight operating conditions that I am finding in attempting to disconnect the actuator.

    I am going to drop back and punt on this one. This is the one item on the car that would likely require SD-1 voodoo magic if I were to jack it up.

    I will call around tomorrow and get a quote for replacing the boot and seal. In the meantime, I am going to rotate the torn boot 180 degrees so that the tear is at the top and then back away slowly...
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  6. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Bruce Bogart
    Always remember: Oil is cheap.
     
  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
    5,969
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
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    Grant
    I'm not sure i understand . I just removed this part from my transmission before Ctually disconnecting the gb. So it can be taken apart.
     
  8. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 9, 2010
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    #8 WATSON, Nov 19, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
    I replaced that seal on my car two years ago. Did it in the garage and the actuator should not be jammed in and unmovable. If it is jammed in there, you have other issues that need attention.

    Edit: BTW, you will need and SD1 centering if you move that actuator.
     
  9. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    Hi Gents,

    I finally have my 1999 355 F1 back from the body shop and put it up on the rack to have a look underneath. I see trans fluid coming from the actuator dripping from the threaded pin.

    I cleaned everything up and the next day see it again dripping from the pin (did not drive it). I has been in the body shop since September last year and not driven at all (here it is Feb). That's the first thing that usually causes gaskets to fail (no lubrication and they dry out).

    Is there a rubber seal around that pin? I did not see it on Ricambi's site.

    Thanks, Boaf
     
  10. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US

    Hi Gents,

    I finally have my 1999 355 F1 back from the body shop and put it up on the rack to have a look underneath. I see trans fluid coming from the actuator dripping from the threaded pin.

    I cleaned everything up and the next day see it again dripping from the pin (did not drive it). I has been in the body shop since September last year and not driven at all (here it is Feb). That's the first thing that usually causes gaskets to fail (no lubrication and they dry out).

    So my questions:
    1. I see a split in the rubber seal that goes around the threaded rod. I did not see it on Ricambi's site. Anybody know a part number?
    2. My concern is if I do it myself, all the fluid will come out and (I assume) will need to be filled and need to be re-calibrated with an SD or Leonardo. Is that right?
    Thanks,

    Boaf
     
  11. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Love to help.

    What is a threaded rod?
     
  12. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    Picture coming, but the part number for the rod is #169221 (table 27 on Ricambi). I need the rubber bushing (or plastic) that goes around the rod, it is split. I appreciate it.

    Boaf
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    That is an actuator stud and it holds the head shield. The oil is likely leaking from the shift shaft seal, dripping down onto the heat shield and wicking down on that stud.

    See green arrow

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  14. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    #14 Skippr1999, Feb 18, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    I just went through this last year. The tech had to use a floor jack to get...just enough... play with the motor mounts to get the actuator off it’s mounting studs. We marked everything with paint and put it back exactly to avoid doing in SD calibration.

    The fluid will not come out. Pull and replace the little seal and boot.
     
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  15. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
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    Thanks, I will give it a try after confirming one more thing.

    I cleaned the fluid off and wiped it down for completely dry. When I went out this morning and saw the fluid, I pulled the cover off. Fluid was dripping down the stud, however, fluid was also coming out of the overflow, and the overflow was touching the stud.

    So isolated the overflow from the stud, and we sill see if it is the overflow or a leak. Hoping for the overflow....Thinking the body shop topped of the fluid as part of service.

    Boaf
     
  16. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
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    So I guess this is good news. The leak is coming from the overflow (it seams). Attached a photo. I am hopeful once the fluid level's out, the overflow will subside.

    Interested to hear your thoughts.

    Boaf
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  17. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    Good news indeed !
     
  18. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Happens a lot. People who do not know how much to fill these shouldn't.
     
  19. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am confused. How do we fill these?
     
  20. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I believe this is similar to the brake system. Given the system has an accumulator, the tank needs enough room to allow the discharge of the accumulator to drain back to the tank and not overflow. So, if people get the F1 system charged (accumulator full) and then fill the tank, when the accumulator discharges the tank overflows.
     
  21. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
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    Dave, that makes sense to me. It's like filling a hydraulic lift. If you fill the tank with the lift in the wrong position, it will leak out the excess that has no place to go.

    Boaf
     
  22. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    Apr 13, 2004
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    I worked on helicopters for years, that drain tube is there for a reason to drain.
    I have no idea what the manual would say if it would at all but all hydraulics have a leak limit while operating and while standing still not being operated.

    If this thing drips a little and you have a tiny spot on the floor that's expected.

    If it was a leak or say an internal failure, your system would drain out all over the floor you would know you have a issue.

    That's my opinion from being a hydraulic mechanic for years on Helicopters.


    Id love to yank my F1 parts out and dissect them but I'm way to poor to gamble like that.
     
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  23. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Johnny - I don't believe the brake system as a drain tube like that - does it?
     
  24. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
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    No Brakes do not.
     
  25. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    As said above Johhny many people let the system pressure and fill then it overflows and not a little but more like an ounce or two depending on how over full you got it.

    Had a few friends do this
     

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