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High Performance tires

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by sherpa23, Mar 23, 2004.

  1. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    I was going to post this in technical but I figure that more people that just F owners would have valuable input.

    I just got a set of new magnesium Speedline challenge wheels for my 355 and I am going to put new tires on them. I am currently using the Goodyear Fiorano F1's on the stock wheels and I don't like them for the fact that they kick up a ton of road gravel and debris.

    I am thinking of going with the Bridgestone S-03's.

    The car will see street use: back roads and mountain roads as well as some highway. I do not take the Ferrari to the track as I have other toys better suited to track use.

    These are some light wheels so I would prefer not to use heavier tires like Pilot Sport Cups.


    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  3. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
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    The Toyo RA-1's have upped to 100 treadwear rating. If milage isn't a concern, I'd go with full tread RA-1's, even for spirited drives / daily commutes. Will work rather well in the rain as well.

    tire sizes: http://toyo.com/tires/tire_specsheet.cfm?id=1

    Other than that, I cannot make any calls on your specific application. The S03's are fine, but if you are looking for something more... well, the Toyos might be it.
     
  4. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Sorry, they don't make them in the sizes that I need.
     
  5. cavallo_nero

    cavallo_nero Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    i have been extremely happy with the falken line of tyres for my 308.
    john
     
  6. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2002
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    The S-03's are one of the heaviest tires out there. They are awesome tires, but very heavy.

    Like Schatten says, I've heard good things about Toyo's. Apparenly, many on the E46 M3 Forum like them because they are great grip and light.
     
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  8. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for the heads up. I am trying to get weights right now. They are hard to find. I could not find weights for the S-03s so I assumed that they are not as heavy as the Pilot Sports. I wil keep searching. Thanks again.
     
  9. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Yikes!! I'm looking at a 12 lb difference between the Toyos (if only they had the right rear tire for me) and the S-03's.
     
  10. jdb

    jdb Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2003
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    Jeremy
    I need to replace the tires on my 355 soon as well. I've read a number of threads on this topic, and lots of people have opinions, but there seems to be no consensus on which is the "best". Are there any objective studies/data out there that provide insight into which tires are better for street use?
     
  11. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
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    I have S01s and had Pzero (not corsa).

    Road noise is worse on the S01s, but wet weather grip is marginally better (stress marginally).

    Not convinced with either tyre.

    I'm going to try Continentals next I think. I've heard they're good tyres, especially in the wet.
     
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  13. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

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  14. 355now350soon

    355now350soon Karting

    Mar 19, 2004
    97
    I have P zeros on my 355. I've heard bad things about them but I've been kind of happy so far.
     
  15. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2002
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    What size are you looking at? BTW, the RA-1 is a competition tire, the Proxes T-1 is the street tire.

    I couldn't tell you which one is the best tire, but the popular tires out there seem to be (In no particular order):

    Bridgestone Potenza S-03
    Toyo Proxes T-1
    Goodyear F1

    Our tire installer likes the S-03's for his car, but hates installing them because of the extremely stiff sidewalls. Also, if you're running stock wheels on the 355 you ~should~ be able to consider going +10 to 275/35-18's without any worry. (You'll need to double check this of course)

    Just some more food for thought.
     
  16. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2002
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    Which P Zeros? I've been curious about the different varieties they have now.
     
  17. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,055
    I have gone through 3 sets of B S03s. I love then, and I hated the S02PPs--go figure. I do a lot of track racing/high performance driving, and get 15 track days on these which would be around 12K miles under road driving situations.

    If you are going to only drive on the roads, I would stay away from the R-compound tires or any other tire with 5/32"-4/32" of tread thickness when new, grip is great, wear is not. On the track you can 'safely' spin max performance rubber (like an S03) and still drive home (and back to the track next week), on r-compounds you typically cord the tire or flat spot it.
     
  18. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Then you'll hate any r compound tire as it picks up and flings even more gravel/debris/sand/etc

    Great tire. Compromises ultimate dry traction for exceptional wet traction. These tires, however, are good all the way down to the wear bars.

    To me, if you're not tracking the car, spending over a grand for tires that'll last you less than 10k miles is a waste. Therefore, I'd limit your search to street tires. If the come in your size, the falken azenis sport are an exceptional bang for buck tires. The new kumho mx is also good. As is the s03 like you've mentioned. Pirelli p zeros are alright, but the set I tried and the p7000's I tried didn't leave me overwhelmed. Tire technology changes and evolves so quickly that I'd suggest you choose tires that are ahead of the curve, or contemporary (and I don't see either pirelli to be there -- with the exception of the corsas that are coming on the CS.)

    These would also be bad b/c they can't handle standing water/rain etc at all and therefore would be a bad choice for street use.
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    This is a difficult quetion to answer. What we really need is a decision tree, because there are so many variables to determine what you should get.

    A few general comments...

    The R rated tires WILL throw more rocks on your car as Hubert says.

    I don't agree with the $1,000 statement except for the fact that there are some $1,000 tires that are as good as $2,00 tires. If you drive more than 10k a year, then stick with less expensive tires. If you only drive the usual 3k a year, then you will want to change your tires after 3 years no matter how much tread you have left.

    Toyo RA1's are great R rated tires! Not as fast as the Hoosiers, but they last longer and will work in the rain too. They only last me about 250 miles on the track though. Although there is plenty rubber left, they start loosing grip after 10+ heat cycles, but you wouldn't notice it on the street.

    For a decision tree...

    Cross track/street tire?

    Ever drive in rain?

    How many miles you drive a year?

    Budget?

    I really believe in great tires, but I also believe there are great tires at good prices, like the Toyos are Yoko AVS Sports. Even the Pzeros I got for the 328 were less than $800 for a set.
     
  20. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Hubert,
    Your comments echo some of my thoughts exactly, particularly about the R compund tires and road debris. Thanks a lot.

    I looked up the weights for the Kumho Exsta MX and they look like lightweight tires with pretty good performance. I will have to do some more research but they look like if they fit my bill.

    BTW, I am staying with the stock front 225/40 18 and increasing the rear 10mm to 275/40-18. I have to check but I think that the front wheels are 18x8 and the rears are 18x10.
     
  21. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    ACK! I still cannot stand the AVS Sports. If you go this route, go with the ES100's, which are the replacement for the Intermediates. The Sports are just a horrible overall tire in the rain and in the dry. Sure, they look neat-o, but horrible in motion.
     
  22. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    I'd pass on anything made by yoko short of the a032r or their line of true slicks. I've tried the avs sports, ints and most recently the es100's and they're all subpar. The es100's are a joke in the dry, and at even the most minimal angle of deflection they spin. Also they have a timidly weak/soft side wall that rolls even with pressure adjustment. ( Having a friend in the tire biz has it's perks--I get to play w/ a lot of rubber.)
     
  23. venusone

    venusone F1 Rookie

    Mar 20, 2004
    2,809
    I stand by my Yoko AVS & older 509 street tires. Have run them on all 4 cars & found them sticky enough in all conditions compared to all others (Comp TAs, etc). These are very affordable & street wise compared to your other z tires.
     
  24. trasus

    trasus Rookie

    Feb 9, 2004
    22
    Phoenix, Az.
    I'm a huge fan of the ecsta mx tire that kumho makes. Just moved to Arizona and put them on after a long string of bridgestones and goodyears. I have to say they have tons more grip and with the price, I don't mind wearing them out on the track. No blistering, adequate sidewall strength and respectable rain performance. Been through 2 sets (burnouts and track days) on a C5 and SVT, with no complaints. I'm told treadwear is miserable, but no worse than tires that I've paid 2X as much for (goodyear DS1s or some similar name). I can't fairly comment on wear, as I've abused them more than other tires and don't represent a typical driver (as evidenced by the back tires wearing out 2 times and only 3/32 of treadwear in the fronts).
     
  25. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Okay, how loud are they and do you notice whether or not they throw up more crap than other tires. I don't care about rain performance. You don't know about the weight, do you? Thanks a lot for the feedback.
     
  26. trasus

    trasus Rookie

    Feb 9, 2004
    22
    Phoenix, Az.
    Regarding weight, they're 2 lbs per tire less on 275/40/17 than the Goodyear Eagle GS-DS3 (20 vs 22), which is what I had before on the C5. They pick up rocks, especially when they're hot and they are louder at highway speeds than any other tire I've owned except for some toyos I had on a miata. The toyos were loudest because they caused vibration that was resonant to the chassis frequency I think. When I changed them, after about 600 bone-jarring miles I didn't notice any road noise from my tires for a year! One more thing about the ecstas though. DON'T DRIVE THEM IN THE COLD!!! The grip goes to hell, and the ride is extremely rough (cold = < 35 degrees).
     
  27. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Yikes... loudest tires I've ever heard. Ridiculously loud at highway speeds. You won't be able to hear your Ferrari engine unless you have straight pipes... that loud! I had some for about a month and couldn't take it...

    I'm a big fan of the S-O3 for street tires due to their awesome wet performance and great dry performance and sturdy construction. However, given you want lightweight and don't care about rain, the above criteria doesn't apply to you.

    I have Kumho MX tires on my 360 right now. I have been very pleased with them... good performance, great feel. And, like all Kumho tires, relatively economical.
     
  28. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
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    ??? Not my experience at all. Bizarre. Mine have not been rough, and I have been driving on them all winter. No road noise to speak of. And they don't pick up rocks (at least, nothing like any R-compound tire).

    Are you talking about the Kumho MX???
     

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