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360 How many miles is too many miles?

Discussion in '360/430' started by beemerb0y, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. beemerb0y

    beemerb0y Rookie

    Jan 25, 2019
    16
    Hello all,
    This might be a broad question, but how many miles is considered “too high”?

    More specifically, even on a well sorted/documented 2002-2004 360 F1 with 35-45k miles, 4-5 previous owners, maintenance and repair receipts since new, services up to date (belts and fluids)...Is 35-45k too high for the car? For the trans? (Figure 25-35% life left)..For the other wear and tear parts? What historically goes bad between 35-45k miles (motor/trans mounts, suspension components, manifolds, electronics, etc?)

    just wanted to get the community’s thoughts and opinions. Thanks
     
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  3. CarAholic

    CarAholic Formula Junior

    May 10, 2016
    412
    No such thing. Even 45,000 miles is not many on an almost 20year old car, 2-3k a year. There have been owners to take them to over 100,000. As long as you take care of it, it will last.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    13,752
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    If it was a BMW or a Porsche, would you be asking the same question?

    If yes, then don't buy it. If no, then buy it. If it had 10k miles and nobody had driven it the same things can go bad with time. Usually driven cars are more reliable.

    If you're worrying that much about parts breaking or depreciation.. can you really afford to own the car? It's not a 355. You're not likely going to have a $10-20k bill unless you crash it.
     
  5. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

    Oct 11, 2004
    3,214
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Malc Holden
    This. This.

    My experience suggests that a garage queen low mileage car will probably be worse than a regular used car. I'm sure there's a break even point. I guess if you buy with a low mileage and use it then you will lose more money. A bit like having it economically written off (well at least how it works in the UK).
     
  6. chipbiii

    chipbiii F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 26, 2008
    7,133
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    chipB
    886,237 miles and 52 feet are just too much according to NASA engineers. You’re still OK at the 51 foot mark, though.
     
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  8. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 30, 2013
    2,815
    Los Angeles
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    Eddie
    It depends on what you mean by too high. Do you mean for resale or more for mechanical repairs/reliability?
     
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  9. BAD430BENZ

    BAD430BENZ Formula Junior

    May 13, 2014
    716
    EL PASO , TX
    Full Name:
    JASON
    I don't know what answer you are looking for or what answer you are going to get here but it's just a car :D

    My car has 26,500 miles , and is modified , and most people here frown upon it but someone selling a used 360 with engine and transmission swap is thought to be ok o_O

    IMHO , anything below 50k is good to go .
     
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  10. beemerb0y

    beemerb0y Rookie

    Jan 25, 2019
    16
    Firstly reliability
    Secondly resale

    I understand that a rarely driven car can potentially be more problematic. I guess im comparing a 15-20k mile 360 with a 35-45k mile 360 in terms of reliability, mileage-specific maintenance/repairs etc, and resaleability
     
  11. milko1969

    milko1969 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    562
    Breda, Holland
    Full Name:
    Milko
    You are buying a car for your self do, not for it resale value, and if reliability is important you are probably scared of large garage Bills? if those are the two big Issues are you sure you can afford it?
     
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  13. beemerb0y

    beemerb0y Rookie

    Jan 25, 2019
    16
    The question is between a 15-20k 360 F1 vs 35-45K 360 F1. Whats the difference in reliability, in mileage specific maintenance (ie: at 30k or 35k or whatever needing an engine overhaul, suspension refresh, ball joints, cams, etc), in resale, etc. Not asking about affordability. The regular maintenance is a given and the unexpected maintenance is not astronomical by any means. And one day it will be sold, so resale is important (ie: does 35-45k 360 F1 sit and sit and sit until its 30% under value of a similarly equipped lower mileage unit?) im sure the buyer pool is much less.

    while on topic, any year to avoid (99-01?)
    For the F1, does the pump generally fail as well or is it just a clutch and TO job?
     
  14. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    11,064
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    Jimmie
    This last post makes it sounds like you might not have read the buying sticky at the top - if you have not its a great place to start
     
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  15. BAD430BENZ

    BAD430BENZ Formula Junior

    May 13, 2014
    716
    EL PASO , TX
    Full Name:
    JASON
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  16. Robb

    Robb Moderator
    Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 28, 2004
    12,596
    Mesa, Arizona
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    Robb Williamson
    I don’t think it’s about miles. More about maint records, types of owners, and current mech and aesthetic condition.

    Visited some tifosi in Australia. Several higher mile (60k km) 360’s and CS there. But they were 99 pt concours platinum. I’d buy those over ones that had not been regularly used and maintained...

    All cars generally need some money to get sorted. Once you get it there, enjoy.

    Robb
     
  17. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 30, 2013
    2,815
    Los Angeles
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    Eddie
    Given everything else is more or less the same (maintenance records and overall a clean and well maintained car), go for the lower mileage car. That's just the simple reality of the US market for resale. Most people here will say it doesn't matter if you try to sell a higher mileage car, you'll most likely get crickets and low ball offers.

    Also, 15-20k miles is not that low compared to 35-45k so I don't think there will be any major concerns there as far as a car that's been sitting.
     
  18. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    6,501
    Campbell, CA
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    John Zornes
    There is no answer to your question that will make sense. The real answer is "it is all about maintenance history". IF the prior owner addressed the major issues then you will have a reliable and fairly low cost car. If they drove it, even maintained it, but didn't go after some of the known issues, you will have an expensive run. Read the sticky. Then see how your target car stacks up against the known issues.
     
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  19. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    Me
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  20. beemerb0y

    beemerb0y Rookie

    Jan 25, 2019
    16
    All good feedback. Thank you
     
  21. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

    Nov 21, 2015
    1,887
    Ontario, The Real One in Canada
    Full Name:
    Lars!
    Age is more of a factor with those examples than mileage...and obviously previous maintenance done. Issues with these cars aren’t mileage related. Years go by faster than the odometer.
    In terms of resale, well...it depends on how many miles YOU will put on it in X years. Eg. If you only do 1000miles per year in 20 years, it won’t matter. If you want to resell in short term, less is better, But your examples aren’t in the low mile category (or extremely high either) to make much difference.
    If you’re shopping for an F1, it likely won’t matter. Market is saturated. If resale is a concern, and budget is tight, I’d get a higher mileage manual trans.
     
  22. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    387
    Gothenburg
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    Zlatan
    Engine overhaul at 30-35k? :D
     
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  23. Tarek307

    Tarek307 Formula Junior
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    Sep 26, 2018
    606
    Long Beach, CA & Alexandria,Egypt.
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    Tarek Salah
    If you buy a low mileage car that isn't exercised much be ready for some BIG BILLS coming up. If you buy a properly driven car thats maintained you should have no issues and you will also buy it for less probably. 50-60K miles on a car that is 15 years old is NOTHING.. It really astonishes me how in the Ferrari world people consider these miles high.
     
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  24. imahorse

    imahorse Formula Junior
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    Nov 25, 2017
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    How it was maintained is the most important part. Things break over time. Most issues I've had were due to parts being old, not wear and tear. Another thing to keep in mind is if you buy an already higher mileage car, you won't lose as much when you sell it due to racking up miles.
     
  25. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior
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    May 21, 2010
    364
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Dean Palmer
    Mileage is only relevant in certain cases, and there are plenty of high mileage (30k+) cars out there that are just great. There are people with over 100k miles and still going with few issues. Web forums amplify the noise of the folks that obsess over details and make a lot of drama over many things, that the typical owner who just buys and drives a car is not involved in. If you are going to drive it regularly, find a car you can live with and save some cash.

    Think of it like restaurant reviews...typical guy eats at 100 places yet the only review he writes is a crying-squealing tantrum of a one-star rant about the 99th place being a total failure because the waitress wasn't a telepathic slave, and the parking was a block away. (but the food was great) This is what you get many times by reading web forums, only the obsessive enthusiasts and drama queens making things bigger than reality (current company and forum excepted LOL.)

    You will save a ton of money if you don't mind some needy cosmetic details such as leather wear, paint chips, old PPF, etc. A high mileage car with proof of a regular service interval is fine. Sometimes you see a car that has had a lot of work done and some folks are viewing it as am issue, where I see a car that has probably been well sorted. I've walked away from 20+ cars that just were not right foe me, but someone swooped right in and bought them.
    Keep in mind if you save a lot on the purchase of a high mileage car of any type, you need to also have enough cash on hand in case there are issues.
     
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  26. beemerb0y

    beemerb0y Rookie

    Jan 25, 2019
    16
    best info in this thread I believe

    so what would be a good purchase price (asking prices always all over the map) for a well documented and well kept 2002 360 F1 as described in initial post (35k-45k miles, 4-5 previous owners, maintenance and repair receipts since new, services up to date (belts and fluids), 25-35% clutch life remaining, no accidents, no paintwork, no stories. .. Estimate.
     
  27. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2010
    364
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Full Name:
    Dean Palmer
    It's a good start to look at actual sales and completed auctions. There is also a video out there on YouTube about graphing the sales prices of the 360 which breaks it down into the proper segments and dimensions of the data. BaT is also a good barometer as they post the results where many dealers remove the prices or never show the actual sale price... https://bringatrailer.com/ferrari/360/

    I'm seeing decent ones listed starting at $60k which means there is some room for negotiations. My advice, decide on the color combo and features you just have to have, and go from there, it narrows the search. I sold my 2000 model a few years ago for $85k, but it was pristine with under 20k miles and all options and the right color ;-) Prices have dropped a bit since then, but the prime cars and the manuals are still priced proudly :)
     
  28. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2010
    1,142
    CA & DC
    +1

    65-70 should be a pretty good starting point
     

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