How many sedans can you do this in?

Thanks to Nathan (Speedracer) for his excellent photography. Taken at Waterford Hills race track.
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Great picture! Damn I just love the QP!

 

love the car
QP and the e60 M5 are the only 2 that can
u guys seen the fifth gear of the m5, he gives it a beating

 

hmmm...

I count 7.......


M5 (V10)
M5 (V8)
RS6 (V8TT)
RS6 (V10)
E55 (V8s/c)
CL65 (V12tt)


and probably the S55.....

 

dont forget the audi S6, S4, S4 V6TT, RS4 V8. S600, S65 AMG....that volvo type R....GS400...BMW 760....and if u count SUVS, the x5 4.8, cayenne turbo G55 AMG...etc etc....

 

The CL is not a sedan.

The Q-Porte would blow away every single of those cars in the twisties.

 

hmmmmm, not sure about that. both the RS6's and M5's would be pretty hard to beat.

 

I guess for the sake of argument, I'd throw the Caddy CTS-V out on the table too - after 13 hours in one, I'm still blown away at the dollar vs. performance issue. Good brakes, excellent suspension, and obviously Z-06 power...might actually be the best comparo to the Q-porte since both are in comparable HP and weight ranges if memory serves me...

 

im amazed by how far from the truth you are...

The Quattroporte is a luxury saloon aimed towards the S500, A8, 745...

How can you tell me its faster than an e60 M5 (the new one- 5.0ltr V10, 500hp), when the M5 did faster than a GT3 porsche on nordschelfe? The Quatropte is only a v8 and not even meant for performance.
Both RS6's would definatly outrun it on track and 'twisties'
- the v8 RS6 is twin turbo......the new one is V10...

The only cars on that list that would probably be equal to it are the AMG cars, apart from the CL65 which would legitimately beat it.... And if the CL65 isn't a seden, its certainly not a sports car... im aware its a coupe, but for tis size and mass it can be compared with sedens.

 

Does it actually amaze you?

Which word didn't you understand when I say it will blow them away in the twisties? Twisties means handling. The Q-Porte will blow those cars away in handling. Is that clear enough?

What you and others have done is simply pick out cars that have more power than the Q-Porte. Does that mean that these cars out handle it? The Q-Porte is the ONLY sedan on planet earth that has it's weight distribution biased towards the back, much like a mid-engine sports car. I have driven one on a track, and was blown away by how well it cornered. One of the top magazines just tested it, and achieved around .9g's on the skidpad.........that is better than most sports cars.

 

QP ,while gorgeus and a good performer in its own right,would take a severe beating from the M5 or even RS6 ,both in the straights and any twisties you could throw at them.
And that's a fact...

 

Actually, even the E38 M-5 has better slalom numbers, equal skidpad ratings (per R&T and MT), and only marginally longer braking times. It also weighs less than the QP. I can't begin to imagine what the 06 M5 will do to it. RS-6 is same situation, comparable skidpad, better slalom, slightly worse braking, lighter. CTS-V, 300C SRT-8: same gig, and the SRT-8 actually beats it on skidpad. The only notable mentioned before that doesn't quite stack up is the E-55, which, as Kizdan mentioned, is way up on power but lacks a bit from the rest in handling.
This is not to say that numbers tell the whole story, but given that every car I've mentioned is not only comparable in the twisties, but also more powerful for less money (except maybe the new M5?), and given that I've had the opportunity for decent seat time in all but the RS-6 and would say that in general, while the numbers may vary from mag to mag, the general trend is the same, I have to say you're a bit off the mark about the QP being able to "blow them away in the twisties" as it looks like it'd be lucky to hang with the other cars mentioned.
Not trying to start a war, just that "blow away" is a pretty strong statement, and I think the facts would show a more level playing field even with cars for half the price or less.

 

Frankly, i'm sure a QP would not be left dead in twists by a CLS 55 or RS6, simply because these cars use a huge amount of power in a very primitive way, meaning they leave almost anything behind in a straight, but don't even have a proper LSD.

 

I have had the opportunity to drive the following on a track, back to back;

Maserati Quattroporte
BMW 745i
M-B S500
M-B S55
Audi A8
Jaguar XJ-R

I can say, from 1st hand experience, that the Q-Porte blows them all away in the twisties. Have you tracked the cars that have been mentioned? And against a Q-Porte?

 

As I said, I'm not trying to start a war, just reign in a bit of rampant exaggeration...as for:

Maserati Quattroporte
BMW 745i
M-B S500
M-B S55
Audi A8
Jaguar XJ-R

Never tracked any of these, nor would I want to with maybe the exception of the QP, nor would I have expected a single one of them to drive or handle like the QP as they are not directed at the same clientelle imho - of course, I didn't mention any of these either. The only car above that should even be in a comparo with the QP is the XJ-R which was obviously found deficient in the MT article (which I believe was the same and only one where they cited a .90 skidpad) with sloppy handling and a slushbox that didn't respond all that well. What I have had the opportunity to do is put E38 M5's, CTS-V's, SRT-8's, E-55's through their paces hard on the street as well as QP's, and have enough driving experience both track and street that I can make an educated, although not perfect, inferrance from this - sure it's not a perfect comparison, but if you drive each to 7/10-9/10 which I am rather fond of doing, you get a pretty good feel for them. Am I stating as fact that all the cars mentioned above will unequivocally beat the QP on a track? Of course not, there are so many variables involved, even equal drivers will prefer different cars and their respective handling traits for different reasons, but what I think can be taken pretty much at face value is that there a plenty of sedans out there, many for less money, which will at least hang, if not out-perform the QP both in a straight line and the twisties. You seem to be inferring that I think the QP is a bad car, I hope this isn't the case, as it's a pretty impressive sedan and the paddle shift option bridges a gap in the market that none of these other cars can making it both unique and desireable - but to me it's just not that impressive dollar for dollar when you look at other options in that segment of powerful, sporty sedans and certainly not capable of blowing the comparable competition away twisties or straights.

 

Well said.

 

Very well put...

And kizdan, im sorry if i came off about aggressive.... I was just optimistic that the e60 M5 would be a better performer. Im also not implying that the QP isn't a good car. Its a wonderful car, and most probably the best looking in it's class, as well as in the top 5 in its class for performance. Mainly, what i was arguing, was that it would never "blow away" an Audi RS-6 or an M5... The AMG cars, perhaps...but the CL65 may even outdo it...that one, i dont know.
anyhow, CornellCars has said it all...

 

The XJR '01-'03 will take a beating from the M5 and the QP. The advantage of the XJR, if you consider it an advantage, is that you get 85% of the performance and 200% the ride quality. Despite the overall length, wheelbase, and weight, they have 50/50 (51/49 at the worst) with excellent brakes and are a momentum car. Once you get it flowing its very easy to keep a good pace. They are definitely capable on a twisty road if you're comfortable manually changing gears like a Hurst shifter.

But on a track extracting as close to 100% as possible from a vehicle, I think the RS6 and M5 would be the only cars that would be able to equal the QP.

Good comments, everyone.

Sunny

 

Again,anyone thinking the QP will keep up with V10 M5 or the RS6 on track or any road,is dreaming...

 

I am a owner of a MY2004 E55 AMG and I can tell you this, in a stright line i beleave that the E55 will kill the QP on the twisties tho, it will lag behind about 1-2 car lengths, Also the BMW's will keep up and be on par with the QP. The RS6 V8TT's boost will allow it to keep up but not as fluid; the V10 version on the other hand I cant say. The CL65 is much like the E55 but with its engine being bigger it helps. The QP has the chassis setup of a god, and the engine powerband that is great. The E55 and most of the MB create torque at low RPM's but hp at the higher hp. For the track take the BMW, QP or the Audi, for the strip take any of the benz. I drive my E55 knowing that it was ment for the autobahn not the race track

 

hehe

thats what I was expressing... but he refused.

 

With the Mercedes, you are right, you'll get much better low-end power...
My wife has an SL600 of which I have driven a few times and that car is already faster than my 993 carrera (cabriolet as well). Mercedes engines are rather good..I just dont like their principles.. For example..there is no reason why the SL65 isn't faster than a 996 turbo or Gallardo ... The 6.5 aMG is held by the autobox and weight ... The SLR is another example.. How can a GT3RS or Challenge stradale be quicker, when you pay much more for it? The SLR is below all of its rivals.

anyway, i've never driven any of these new maseratis, but this OP is well built and is probably better value than the mercedes...

 

Quattroporte or the M5?

Tough choice indeed ... performance numbers be ignored for a moment. My head says M5, my heart says QP.

 

The OP is much more luxurious..which is what its meant to be... The M5 is a performance mid-sized seden. The two, in my opinion dont share many similarities and the choice would be based on preference, but not what the better car is.

its like asking,
Italian coach work or German technology...

 

please confirm that Ring time!!! i assume you mean the new 2005 M5. the M5 E60 is shewn at 8.13, still not too bad. the RS6 did 8.20

http://www.track-challenge.com/main_e.asp

the Maser coupes ran 8.30 and 8.35.

i really doubt a QP can do 7.54 or less at the Ring, the gt3 time. My wife loved her QP and i pounded it over the mountains in Malibu ["the twisties"] and it is an excellent and attractive sedan with a crappy gearbox, the shifts are so slow you have to pre-shift. i find the seats uncomfortable.

it does handle well and is quick, but no 7.54, or even 8.13, btw both which times at the Ring allows the observer to infer some reasonable handling "in the twisties".

it is most certainly faster than her S600 "in the twisties". unless the 7.54 claim can be substantiated, i would bet the QP will run 8.25, slower than M5 and Rs6. ihave only driven an old [2002] M5 with schnitzer suspension and chip for a month in the mountains, and it felt about the same as her QP.