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How should I think about $ impact of “minor damage”?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by 2tall4economy, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. I have been working to find my first f car. After a number of months I narrowed it down, took some for test drives and settled on one.

    it’s a dealer car certified pre owned, and what I’d call semi-collectible; not a speciale or anything but it’s a manual car from one of the last models in that lineup produced with a manual (and no I don’t want to get more specific than that in case I buy it!).

    I got to the point where I’m all ready to buy and kicked off the negotiation.

    I got a phone call this morning with their response to my demands and, to their credit, the dealer reminded me there was “very minor damage” from getting rear ended outside of the dealership and needing the bumper replaced and that was driving their lower price.

    they made it clear they won’t move on the price more than what I’ve negotiated, which i feel is an absolutely fair price for an Undamaged car.

    what I’m struggling with is that I have no idea what sort of value loses I would have / should expect for this type of damage and whether I’m going to have huge problems when I go to sell or trade it since it’s my first f car transaction.

    insight appreciated!
     
  2. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    My opinion is bumper or rocker panel damage is really not a problem at all. Just make sure there's no other damage. Damage to hood, doors, trunk/ rear deck, roof, that is a very different story.

    Bumpers/ rockers are too easily and often damaged for their repair to be an issue- so long as its done well.

    Let us know how it works out!
     
  3. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    The older the car gets, the less the damage hit matters when you go to resell. Is there an entry on CarFax? If you acquire the car for X% lower than retail, you will likely resell it for X% lower than retail but that would be at a lower retail level due to depreciation over the years and thus, the dollar hit you would incur at that future time would also be somewhat less, but still a hit. At least you are not getting a "surprise" in the future and know going in. Good luck.
     
  4. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
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    If you buy the car with a history of damage, when it is time for you to sell it prospective buyers will be asking the same questions.
    If you can get some photo documentation of the degree of damage, it may put your mind at ease as well as the person to whom you sell in the future.
    In my opinion, little low speed love taps causing purely cosmetic bumper damage really shouldn’t have a significant impact on desirability.
     
  5. car fax says:
    Accident reported
    Damage report
    Involving rear impact

    that’s it.
     
  6. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    No photos of prior damage or shop repair estimate? No deal, simple as that.
     
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  7. For this from dealer. If I can figure out how to post pictures I’ll do that too:

    The first picture shows a cracked rear difusser, and a few dings in the rear bumper. The second and third show a scuff on the lower bumper bracket, which was replaced. Finally, the new bumper was painted and reattached to the vehicle to complete the repair.

    As you can see - no structural damage. The car was recently worked on by our Master Techs, and received its "major" or "4 year" service. It's in excellent shape in and out.
     
  8. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    This ^^

    it will become your problem when you go to sell it.

    And you said yourself you are paying the price of a clean carfax car...so why do that for a repaired, marked carfax car?

    either pay market for a marked repaired car or for a non marked car. Otherwise you lose money by definition.

    And, as the poster said above, no pics no deal for me (there is often no such thing as minor damage on a ferrari that involves hitting the rear end where the exhaust, transmission, engine et al are).
     
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  9. Try 1...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Don’t see any pics. But do they have repair receipts? (To prove the statement no damage beyond the surfaces)?
     
  11. Alcav5

    Alcav5 Formula 3
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    hmm

    If that picture is the car , and that car is a spider and a manual and that's all the damage and you have negotiated to the point they are done , I say buy it. Are they throwing in the power train warranty , maybe you can get 2 years?

    imo , don't worry about resale just enjoy the car.
     
  12. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
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    Based on the pics, I’d say the damage is not a deal-breaker
    If it checks off all other boxes important to you, go for it and enjoy
     
  13. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
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    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Its a story car now, doesn't matter how minor the damage is, its got a story and will always have a story. Doesn't matter how minor the damage was, or how well it was repaired. Even with all the evidence in the world its going to be a harder car to resell and the price you pay should take this into account. The amount its gonna hurt will depend on the damage. It looks quite minor and assuming everything was repaired properly I'd say its a 10% hit. Keep in mind that its not just going to be the price, but the time it will take to sell will be longer too.

    If its the car you want though its worth paying a bit more, particularly if you don't plan on reselling it any time soon. Also depends on if you want it for its "collectability", or if you want it to drive it. If you're going to really drive it and keep it for a long time, then it won't matter hardly at all. Heck it might even aleve some stress since you don't have to be worried about a minor incident hurting its value.
     
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  14. Thanks all, great advice!

    I hope none of you guys are plants from the dealership camped out looking for the pictures they just sent me to appear. ;)
     
  15. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    There is was a thread about an F12 that was slightly damaged in the rear not long ago. In the ferraris for sale section IIRC. Red car beautifully optioned.
    Repairwork was above 10k.
    That DID affect resale value quite a bit.

    Just try and trade in a slightly damaged car and see if they dont adjust their offer. ;)
     
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  16. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    If you're buying the car for your use.. who cares how it will affect sale. It's an accident with damage. If you want to pay their price, pay it. If not just walk.
    A manual 430 is "rare".. but it's not an Enzo or LaFerrari. What will happen when the manual conversions come into vogue? The question will be, " why does this original manual 430 with an ACCIDENT have a higher price than a perfect converted car with less miles and better condition?
     
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  17. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
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    Just keep looking for a no story car at market price. This car has a bad Carfax and the seller is not adjusting the price lower according. Why worry about the headache of selling a storied car in the future it will only affect your current ownership experience negatively IMO.
     
  18. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Buy the car, it's just cosmetic stuff. Trust me, having a used car touched up is not a big deal as many new Ferraris have jacked up paint from the factory. Just ensure the paint matches and the quality of the repair is spot on. These cars are pretty easy to take apart so I bet everything fits as it should. Good luck.
     
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  19. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    #19 Shark01, Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    So I've bought a similar car like this before (Lamborghini Diablo Roadster) which had a $6,000 repair (which is nothing in the exotic world, the body guy charges like $2,000 just to look at it) and currently looking at a Ford GT with a blemish for minor damage (not an accident, just termed as damage). In both cases, I got (or am getting) a discount of 10-15% from a similar car without a blemish. Fact of life, you NEED to get that discount.

    There is also a way to mitigate the effect of the CarFax, which when it says "Accident" it screams something bad. For the Diablo, my CarFax said exactly what yours does, I contacted CarFax, sent them the repair bill, and they changed the term to "Minor Accident" and now lists the $6,000 bill so that anyone looking at it knows it was just a bump.

    Here is how the Diablo CarFax reads now:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  20. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    That is good to know.
     
  21. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    My impression is that the OP feels the car has been reduced somewhat. Of course, this just might be dealer hype and mirrors.

    ...the dealer reminded me there was “very minor damage” from getting rear ended outside of the dealership and needing the bumper replaced and that was driving their lower price.
    Is the "lower price" really a damage reduction and has OP done his due diligence to quantify the diminished value?
     
  22. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Would be interested to know how the insurance company looks at replaced values when it involves an Exotic with prior damage. Actually curious.
     
  23. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

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    The market for a gated F430 coupe or spider varies from $150K to $210K. There are typically less than 5 offered at any given time for sale.

    My 2006 F430 F1 coupe had to have the bumper replaced when it was 2 years and 2,xxx miles old from a minor front end impact. The previous owner resprayed it due to some rock chipping so that makes front bumper respray #2.

    I don't give two schlitz. Due to that front impact the price was heavily discounted. I look forward to the odometer reading 50K or even 100K miles.

    An accident car turns away investors or collectors. If you don't plan to drive it, don't buy it. You will take a hit when it comes time and every thousand miles you put on will double down on your loss.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    resllling a car with a story be it big or small always shrinks the demographic. But if you buy it at the proper relative discount the you should be able to sell it at the same relative discount so whats the difference. You get a car for a little less $ and maybe have to work harder to resell it but there are always people out there who want something expensive/exclusive for less.
     
  25. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

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    OP specifically says the negotiated price is fair for an undamaged car. To me this implies that the dealer isnt taking the accident history into account and negotiating a lower, commensurate price satisfactory to the OP.

     

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