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I know it's illegal but....

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by F456 V12, Mar 27, 2004.

  1. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Rookie
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    Mar 13, 2004
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    Christian
    I'm considering removing the catalytic converters on my 456 six speed and replacing them with straight pipes. I have a friend who can fabricate these pipes for me under the guise of "off road." Also, planning on adding a new exhaust...Tubi, Strenbo, Quciksilver...aside from having to put the converters back on every two years for a smog check, is there any thing else I should be concerned about such as heat, loss of power or will it just be louder than stock?

    Help and opinion is appreciated
     
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  3. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    There is a very short video of a 456 revving with Tubi, someone may have a link for you, because I forget it. Have you heard the others?
     
  4. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    HUBBSTER
    I took the cats off my 512TR & added a Tubi. The cats actually pproduce a lot of heat & lower hp so removing them is a good cure + the car sounds a lot better w/o them
     
  5. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Nov 8, 2003
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    Armen
    DO IT. The car will thank you!!!!
     
  6. GTB4NART

    GTB4NART Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2004
    421
    Where exhactly are the cats on the 456? Near the rear by the exhaust outlests or up towards the engine? I'm thinking of doing straight pipes too but I worry about how complex the swap is .

     
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  8. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,273
    Switzerland (NW)
    Thoughts cats served other purposes than castrating the hp and noise output of supercars.
    Might be tough to conceive in a country where gas prices 2x cheaper than any other developped place on earth is likely to impact the outcome of a presidential election, or where leading journalists are still in denial that there is some kind of remote connection between automotive traffic pollution and environmental matters.

    Are we, priviledged people by many accounts, irresponsible & selfish to the point where 5% more hp and an even louder exhaust note are well worth asthma, lung cancer or acid rains (I leave global warming out since I believe cats don't change a thing to CO2 emissions) ?
     
  9. wmnewland

    wmnewland Karting

    Aug 3, 2001
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    Manhattan Beach, Cal
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    Newland, William
    He is Swiss.
     
  10. mlabiche

    mlabiche Rookie

    Jan 9, 2004
    20
    Aroud Geneva Lake - AKA : Heaven
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    Marin Labiche
    The theorem Again : The New (good & brave ?) Word against (frozen minded ?) "Old Europe".... LOL
    But I must Say : 100% agreed with The Shark.. For the philosophy @ least.. for the technical point of view .... well i don't know ... But what i kNow is : if people are still jokin with cats, someday we will not be allowed to drive anything but lotus elise with electric motor from micro wave industries......Argggggggggggggh

    Enjoy anyway the remaining days of your life
     
  11. tigermilk

    tigermilk Formula Junior

    Jul 12, 2001
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    James P. Smith
    Check the state laws. A friend of mine did not remove his cats in Firebird but just disconnected them. The car is OBDII so he just bought a chip to fool the computer at inspection time. The state law simply says the car must have catalytic convertors. It does. They're still there - just not working!
     
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  13. BJS

    BJS Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    287
    Central FL and SW MI
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    Brad Stephenson
    Check out Random Technology's products at http://www.randomtechnology.com. They make high-flow cats for a number of automobiles. You'll have to drop them a note to discuss Ferrari applications.

    Advantage here is you get the actions of the cat expected by the engine control computer, reduced emissions, while dramatically increasing exhaust flow and providing a louder exhaust note.

    I have no connection with Random Cats, but do have several friends who have installed them on their Vettes and Vipers with success.
     
  14. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Don Jackson II
  15. Bmyth-FDC

    Bmyth-FDC F1 Rookie

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  16. fpb

    fpb Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    160
    MI, Chicago
    I agree, the cats are on there for a reason.
     
  17. 512Professore

    512Professore Karting

    Feb 3, 2004
    145
    USA, GA.
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    Brian Strasburg
    Yeah, I understand your desire to replace the Cats, however, you might consider an alternative path. The 456's exhaust system has 3 main pieces, the cats, then the center resonator, then the rear mufflers, which is very similar to the 550 system. These pieces, all in series with the exhaust flow, do restrict the flow, but they also produce standing pressure waves in the system, which contributes the poor sound and poor flow characteristics. Just replacing the center resonator with a Stebro center X-over pipe makes a considerable difference in sound and power as shown by Sebro's dyno tests, and virtually removes the standing waves. Then, you could install K&N air filters. The combo of the X-over pipe and the K&N is much cheaper then trying to replace the cats, and then having to worry about emmission tests and such. This combo works, becasue this same combo really helped a 550 I know of.

    In regards to emmission, pollution, I would assume that that your 456 is NOT your daily driver, and you probably drive it around 3k miles per year. Now, constrast that with a bone stock Ford, Chevy, etc., SUV wich is probably driven 20k miles per year at about 13MPG. Now, which vehicle puts more pollution into the atmosphere --- a Ferrari without cats driven 3k miles per year, or a SUV with cats driven 20k miles per year ?????????? Also, some states(i.e. GA) with emmissions testing on OBD-II cars don't even check underneath the car, use a tail pipe test, or anything... they just plug the state's computer into the car's OBD-II test port to verify compliance - again - go figure with that governmental logic !!!!!

    If you really want to replace the cats, a metallic 100 element "racing" style cat would do the trick, but the center resonator should also be replaced with a X-over pipe to get rid of the standing waves.

    FORZA FERRARI !
     
  18. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra
    I don't see cats on jet fighters, practice bombs nor Formula cars, I have the same rights.
     
  19. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks, I called Stebro and they have a set up for me. I'm going to give the x-over and K&Ns a try...cheap money at $550

    MB
     
  20. jimmy b

    jimmy b Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
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    On a plane
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    James
    MB,

    Very interesting what Brian states about the cross-over pipes and filters, this may well have some benefit without removing mandatory cats. There's no doubt that cats a) sap about 35bhp from a 456 and about 45bhp from a 550, b) are expensive, c) as they get older they spit white chalky powder out of the exhaust pipes - time for replacement - and d) do far less for the environment than their supporters would have you believe. I believe also that on some cars (non-F also) above the middle of the rev range the cats do practically nothing and even have a by-pass pipe with a valve to go round the cats. However, the law is the law, so far be it from me to recommend anything contrary.

    I've done a little research on this recently as I also have a 456. There are a couple of sites worth you looking at for comparison, although they're European so may or may not have outlets that can help you where you are. They offer some alternatives to dumping the cats, which are required for road use.

    Firstly is www.euro-sportscars.com who offer digitec chip re-mapping and a number of other tuning products, exhausts, filters, including a 600bhp converson for 360s! Millionaires only need apply.

    Secondly is www.harmann-motorsport.de who offer a similar range of "enhancements" for a 456 from front splitters, to bhp increases, 'performance manifolds', sports exhausts and launch control! Don't know how this compares with what you can get done locally.

    The www.superchips.co.uk website does list the 456 as a model that they can provide a re-mapped bhp-raising ECU for, although strangely the www.superchips.com site makes no mention of the huge list of non-US cars they supply for.

    Lastly if you do decide to replace the cats with straight-through pipes, you should be aware that Tubi manufacture a complete exhaust set for this purpose with built-in lamda sensors for feed back to your ECU. I wouldn't therefore recommend having the Tubi rear boxes, etc. and then fabricating separate pipes. This could turn out to be a false economy (might not be cheaper anyway) if you damage the engine...

    The other enhancements that I've been recommended to look at, purely as a BTW, are fitting the stronger 550 anti-roll bars instead of the 456 ones (a Ferrari part and no threat to warranty or insurance), fitting 550 18-inch wheels and tyres, which with a lower profile maintain the same total radius, and give much better road-holding, and finally if you do this second change, you can fit the superior brakes of the 550 as well (won't fit on 456 17-inch wheels) even up to the 550 Fiorano brakes which are the same Brembos as on an F50. The Hamann site lists 19-inch wheels for 355,360,456,550 or 575 if you want even bigger ones, but these are clearly after market not Ferrari.

    Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

    James.
     
  21. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    #18 maranelloman, Mar 31, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Why on EARTH would you want to do this??? 436 hp is not enough out there in congested SoCal?? You think you will notice 5 extra hp, AT MOST?????

    What you are contemplating is a Federal felony, for one. For two, it would needlessly make the most polluted metro area in the US even more so. Do you have kids? Parents? Friends? Do you all not breathe the same air???

    I am sorry, friend, but I think you are contemplating an absurd, selfish, unnecessary, stupid, FELONY, and i hope you get caught if you do.

    As other posters have pointed out, other exhaust mods--LEGAL ones--will give you all that HP and more, as well as a wonderful sound, while not adding to the damage all you SoCal'ers do to your lungs every day.
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  22. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    Why is it illegal to put straight pipes on a 456, but we see 360s, 355s, etc. with a Tubi exhaust and bypass pipes on. Are those illegal too? Or are we talking about two different things?
     
  23. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest


    Different things. He is contemplating removing his catalytic converters & driving on the streets with test pipes in their place. The Tubi & other aftermarket exhausts are aft of the catalysts. Any cat bypass pipes are ONLY legal in cars not driven on the public roads in the US. Any alteration of the emissions system on a vehicle driven on public roads is a Federal felony.
     
  24. tifosi69

    tifosi69 Formula 3

    Dec 23, 2003
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    Al-Al Cool J
    Guys. from experience I can tell you 512Professore is the king as it relates to these types of mods. He knows where he's coming from and is an engineer so he has studied all the available products on the market and figured out WHAT product works best with each model and application. Take his recommendations.
     
  25. davel

    davel Guest

    Practice bombs are mostly inert and just make nice impact craters, ie they dont explode, except for the smoke marker in them to judge impact point versus desired target.
    Fighter aircraft engines burn at such high temperatures that we burn more of whats bad than a car. Given the FEW # of fighters etc versus the BILLIONS of cars its not worth talking about in terms of pollution.
    I agree with Dave Maranelloman, just drive and enjoy. Your mods will not be felt in the seat of your pants and so you make a little more noise. Leave the big noise making to the folks with big booming stereo's and custom Rice Rockets. A 456 is class, style and grace. Don't make it something its not.
     
  26. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    #23 maranelloman, Mar 31, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    No you don't, ace. What an obtuse thing to say.

    You wanna change the vehicle emissions laws? Talk to your congressman & senators. Until then, seek help for this:
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  27. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    He's back!!!! Yipee!!!

    Although, in Testa's defense, you can't expect too much as he did claim that he married his underage cousin :)
     
  28. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
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    Jim
    This clearly can't be a serious statement...
     

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