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I need help with a 360 decision......

Discussion in '360/430' started by Dave Radu, Dec 24, 2003.

  1. Dave Radu

    Dave Radu Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    132
    San Jose, Ca
    Full Name:
    Dave Radu
    I need to get a push or pull back on a 1999 360 F1 Modena with
    4,700 miles one owner car. It's red/tan, power seat, shields, leather headliner, red calipers, red stiching, cd and new tires. Price $132k will probrably take $130k. This car is absolutly perfect the owner has 10 Ferraris, including a Enzo. I have no problem with service or maintenance. I'm mostly concerned with depreciation. Where will the car be in say 2 years? Are they on a down trend? I don't mind spending the $ but would hate to throw away say 20%. Should I wait?
    I've owned 2-308s before, but this is a whole new league for me.

    I'm sure this has been asked before many times, but now the ball is in my court and I really need help. Good or bad let me have it. I need to make a decision by Dec. 28th.

    Thanks, Dave
     
  2. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    It's a used car. Of course it will depreciate. You are not paying as much as you might for a later year, so the car has already taken some hit. I'll let others comment on where the 360 coupe market is these days, but i would think owning and driving that car for a couple years would be worth 25k dollars. If you are really hung up on your "investment," i wouldn't buy it. Short of the inside track on some highly valuable antique or new exotic which is being sold considerably below market, i don't know that any car purchase will make you feel safer.
     
  3. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Dave -

    I'm no expert, but I've been looking at the same issues for a while now. A lot depends on when the 360 replacement is introduced, which most pundits figure is about a year from now. Then, how well is the new model received? The 355 actually did quite well for several years after the 360 was introduced as buyers took a little while to warm up to the new style. The replacement (420?) will be mostly unavailable to the average buyer for several years, if past history holds. Eventually, though, the 360 will take its lumps in the marketplace, like the 355 is now, so if you plan on buying the car and owning it for, say, five years, I would bet at the end of the five years it will be down about a third.

    Gary
     
  4. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,617
    California
    Full Name:
    Carbon McCoy
    This thread should have just stopped after that. There you go. There's your answer. All wrapped up, in a nut shell...
     
  5. labcars

    labcars Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2003
    1,288
    Phila. + Scottsdale
    I'm with whart onthis one. It's a car, hence it's a depreciating asset. The question is what's it worth to you to drive the 360 for the next few years, or alternatively, would you keep it if its value had fallen beyond your pain treshhold at the time you'd be looking to sell it. Again, and meaning no disrespect, these are cars and NOT investments, with very few exceptions.

    Can you tell I'm a "bah, humbug" kinda guy since I'm here on Xmas eve?
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,617
    California
    Full Name:
    Carbon McCoy
    Now here's a statement, not related to the initial post or poster, that i think should be discussed, perhaps in another thread, entirely... i whole-heartedly agree; these are CARS, not investments... They're investments for people who buy them JUST to flip them; for people who buy them as cars, they're CARS. To be honest, i can't think of ANY exceptions; Lab, i'd love to know the few you might be thinking...
     
  7. dwood1969

    dwood1969 Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    67
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    David Wood
    Dave,

    I would agree with the others. I too am no expert but I would imagine that you are looking at a car that may be worth about 95-100K in 2 years (as a 6-7 year old car). Having said that, I personally would think that is quite reasonable a hit to take for the driving pleasure you will get out of the car in the next couple of years. The only other thing to consider is the cost of a major service if it hasn't already been done. Given that it is a 99, it will probably require the service in the next year or so - no matter what the mileage is. I am sure someone else with more experience can tell you what that would run. I say "Go for it!". If you are buying it for the right reasons then you won't regret it. As they say in the art world, "Buy because you love the art, not as an investment".
     
  8. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    Buy it :) I'm sure you deserve a holiday treat
     
  9. Hurricane

    Hurricane Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    6
    Miami
    Cars (not pieces of art like an F1 or GT40, cars) , unlike real estate, are not assets, they are liabilities. Get a ferrari because you can, because women will like you if you do, get it because you are going to DRIVE IT.
     
  10. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,617
    California
    Full Name:
    Carbon McCoy
    There's a guy here who owns a GT40 MK IV that he drives... i met him and saw the car in the flesh... Awesome car... Awesome owner, too... :)


    Forget the women...


    ...exactly...!!!
     
  11. labcars

    labcars Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2003
    1,288
    Phila. + Scottsdale
    Des, some of the older cars like 275GTB/4, 275GTS, 365GTS as examples. All characterized by age, desireability, VERY limited production.
     
  12. johnw

    johnw Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2002
    438
    toronto
    Full Name:
    john
    BUY

    THE

    CAR
     
  13. Dave Radu

    Dave Radu Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    132
    San Jose, Ca
    Full Name:
    Dave Radu
    This is great information. Exactly what I needed to hear. It confirms alot of my personal thoughts. If there's more out there I'm still listening

    Thanks to all who have posted.
     
  14. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I think the 308 & 328's have bottomed out, of course the newest one is a 1989 car. Forget the 348, alot of Maintance issues. The 355 & 360's will continue to depreciate. Thats just a fact. 2 years ago a 355 was worth about $120k, now you can buy them for about $85K.
     
  15. pig4bill

    pig4bill Karting

    Dec 24, 2003
    59
    A Lambo Gallardo or Ford GT, if you can get one at MSRP, would net you some change if you flip it.
     
  16. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    12,754
    San Clemente
    Full Name:
    Anthony Tonokaboni
    Guys the 360 replacement is a minor facelift with interior work and upgraded engine. The completely new car will be introduced after the 575 Replacement is out.

    Buy the 360 and enjoy it, I bought a 355 five years ago and although it has depreciated I still love it. My wife tells me never to sell it.
     
  17. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    the 360 market will not be taking a huge hit untill the 360 replacement is out. just my $0.02C. go for it . you only live once.
     
  18. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    Labcars: You are right, to some extent, to bring up the older cars. But, even then, the lion's share of appreciation may have already occurred. Nonetheless, there are instances where an older car type gets forgotten for a while during a market cycle, making it a better buy than others: eg the series 2 Pf Cabrio is still a little "low" compared to its brethren, but right now, gtb/4's, boano's and 330gts are bringing top dollar. While all of these cars may continue to appreciate in the long haul, i don't think of them as a great investment in the sense of making money; you probably won't lose any, though, so in that sense, they are (an investment).
     
  19. JBsZ06

    JBsZ06 Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2003
    756
    Dave, For the most part...cars depreciate 50% in the first three years...(look at what most leases cost) What did the car cost new?

    If you've got the spare 130 grand to purchase the car..you got to figure 26 grand for two years use pretty good..

    To calculate average 2 year depreciation..the best way is to call a few dealers to see what they would charge to lease Ferrari 360 for..and see what the buy back is? If its two grand a month to lease..figure anything less than a 24 grand depreciation puts you ahead of the game...???

    One question. Why are there new tires on a 4700 mile vehicle?

    Sounds like hard usuage?
     
  20. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,058
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    You only live once, and you can't take it with you. If you can afford it (and you said you can), BUY it, and DRIVE it, save the investment for the stock market.
     
  21. Dave Radu

    Dave Radu Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    132
    San Jose, Ca
    Full Name:
    Dave Radu
    Why new tires on a 4700 mile vehicle?

    The owner tells me he wanted the car perfect in every way so there would be no excuses.
    I asked if the car had ever been on a track. The answer was absolutly not.
     
  22. labcars

    labcars Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2003
    1,288
    Phila. + Scottsdale
    whart, I'm right there with you. Was only trying to make the point that some cars wont necessarily depreciate, not that they are where you'd put your investment dollars, given the range of investment alternatives available today. At the end of the day, while some cars may not depreciate, or may even appreciate to some degree, NO car should be viewed as a pur play rate of return investment vehicle (pun intended), but rather as mechanical toys to be enjoyed at varying costs based on choices made, IMHO.
     
  23. andybm3

    andybm3 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2003
    235
    USA
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Dave,

    Price appears ok, I would be concerned about tire usage. For example I have a 2000 360 (in service Jan 01) with 5,700 miles that still has good tires left. I bought mine new from the dealer and depreciation has been modest, but I suspect it will take a hit when the new model is introduced. I would ask make sure it was not tracked. BTW - will be selling it in the new year when I get my Stradale, I live in Saratoga if you want to take a look.
     
  24. Dave Radu

    Dave Radu Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
    132
    San Jose, Ca
    Full Name:
    Dave Radu
    andybm3, I would be very interested in seeing your car. Soon I hope.
    I will pm you my phone #. Hopes that's ok?
     
  25. scott63

    scott63 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    393
    $130K is a very good price for this car. You can probably drive it for a year and not lose any $$. BTW, 360 prices will most likely go up for a year or two after the new model is introduced. The reason is that it will take a long time to get a new one and a lot of people will buy a used 360 to drive while they are on the wait list for the replacement model.
     

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