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Discussion in '456/550/575' started by scowman, Feb 16, 2018.

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  1. Temple

    Temple Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2015
    590
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Temple
  2. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    Stu Boogie
    Radiator is back from the shop. Welded some spots and epoxied some spots, flushed and painted all for $45. Let's see how she does. Alternatives will be very expensive as the oil and water tanks are welded together.
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,085
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Stu- For that price, you cannot go wrong except for future labor possibilities. Not sure if Ron Davis has one in that configuration.

    Any oil cooler leaks or was it just the radiator?
     
  4. sully456

    sully456 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2011
    40
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Steve O'Sullivan
    I have purchased the same suspension bush kit and the the new Engine mounts for my 456GT, but have not had time to install - very keen to see how the engine mounts are changed, keep up the great work - the tips and photo's save us all time when we come to do the same jobs.
     
  5. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    Oil cooler seems solid as oil is an anti oxidant. Radiator guy said it’s electrolysis eating the water radiator from the inside. Recommended some off the shelf product at autozone. Going to run it and keep an eye on it.

    Ron Davis said they had seen a few like mine welded together. Never got a price from him but figure it’s expensive.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,085
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Stu- Last ones I heard about were around $1700. Not cheap, unless you compare it to an OEM radiator.

    A lot more than $45, however.

    Using Zerex G05 and swapping it every two years should keep you ahead of radiator problems and nitrite depletion that causes cylinder liner erosion.
     
  7. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    #157 scowman, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    I just replaced the first wishbone-left rear upper. That was a much bigger PITA than I had expected. The new bushing rubber extends out preventing the wishbone from sliding into the frame brackets. It's off by about 1/8 inch. I did some internet research about this and it's a common suspension problem (not just Ferrari). I read about wedges and pry bars, etc. The inner bushings had nothing for me to lever against to squeeze it in. I ended up buying some small pry bars from Walmart (see pic) that I used as wedges. So I tapped the forward bushing in its bracket enough to hold the wishbone up. I then pounded the rear bushing up along the wedge until it was in the bracket, but that just created a new problem.

    Now the other side of the bushing was outside of the bracket (I just shifted the problem from forward to rear). Fortunately it was next to the frame so I could lever a pry bar and squeeze it inside of the bracket while hitting up on it with a ball peen hammer. This got it within the bracket! First time in two days of trying:D. From there it was pound away with the hammer to get the bushing up in the brackets. Then I had to wiggle the pry bar out without taking the bushing with it (I came really close to that:confused:).

    The outer bushing had the same problem (see pics) but the good news it that I could lever between the wishbone flange and the hub to get it place, then just tap with a hammer. From there I had to tap a bunch to get the bolt holes to line up and get the bolts through. I just need to this seven more time:eek:!

    I'll take more pics on the next one to show how I used the wedge.



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  8. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
  9. JayEff

    JayEff Karting

    Aug 8, 2017
    212
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    John
    So essentially you increased the distance by spreading the A arm out 1/8 of an inch? Thereby allowing the bushings to fit up in? I would have been afraid it would break the part. But great work. N o wonder no one does this.
     
  10. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    I don’t think I moved the brackets or wishbone at all. What I did was compress the rubber part of the bushing that sticks out of the wishbone sleeve. It’s the part that muffin tops when you press the bushing out. Makes for a real snug fit which I think is intended.
     
  11. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2015
    462
    Incognito
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    RJA
    #161 Canuck550, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    Same when I fit those on my 550, be certain also to torque to spec in cars loaded position, not certain if it make any difference, have read this on many forums, a real PITA.
    I noticed when the arms are installed with the new bushings, its is substantially harder to lift the arms up and down. In comparison to the 20 year old bushings that came out, the arm moved up and down quite freely. Did you notice the same?

    Try not to tap direct on the arm with a hammer, use a block of wood between to distribute the force and not damage the arms, work right and left side slowly a bit at a time, to install evenly, it was a lot easier to install this way, I also lightly drove bolts through, sacrificial bolts, to get them on center, while using a pry bar....fun times....
    Remember she is a delicate machine :)
     
  12. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    #162 scowman, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    I haven’t torqued anything down yet. Still have to install the shocks. I’ve read about the load torquing too. Also not sure about if that is a Ferrari issue or not. Suppose I can just set on wheels then torque? Probably harder than it sounds. Service pit would be real handy for that.

    Haven’t figured out the eccentric washers yet either.
     
  13. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2015
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    #163 Canuck550, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    Its a PITA to torque when shocks are in place on the 550 as the wrench wont go in place
    Without shocks, you can get torque wrench in. As I wanted to be certain the bolt heads faced all the correct directions, front to back and back to front, per the manual.
    What I did post installation, and pre-shock installation, is jack up the arm at the base of the disc brake. I measured center of disc to top of each wheel arch prior to removal, then I torqued them

    After I reinstalled everything, I decided to let the experts handle the alignment / toe / camber, even though I marked the eccentric bolts, pre removal.
    I took the car in for a full corner balance / alignment, glad I did, as it was way out.
    Maybe you should consider this so you don't chew up tires?
    While he was in there I had him check the bolts to ensure I had a secondary once over inspection....in other words, I don't trust myself :)
     
  14. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
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    Stu Boogie
    I was kinda thinking of just barely torquing everythinng then driving to a specialty shop and have them torque it all down and align it at the same time. Shop is not far away. Not going very far. Famous last words right?:cool:
     
  15. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2015
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    RJA
    A solid plan, based on the effort to get the damn things in, you should not have to worry about arriving safe.
    It takes a lot of force to torque them down properly, I was shocked!
    Somethings are best left to the experts.
    Road safety is high on my list :)
     
  16. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    Where did you get the torque specs?
     
  17. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2015
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    RJA
    They are listed at the back of the suspension section in the 550 manual (in a chart)
     
  18. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
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    Cool thanks
     
  19. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    Found them. You are correct. 98 nm = 72 ft lbs. Pretty heavy.
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  20. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    Stu Boogie
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,430
    socal
    Bent an A-arm and needing pry bars for bushings 1/8" too big? In 40+ years of Ferrari I have never had to prybar bushings. What is the bushing source?
     
  22. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,510
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
  23. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2015
    462
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    RJA
    Hi Carl
    On my 550 even to remove my existing arms it was tough, had to use pry bars and lightly tap out with a block, tried to put them back in with old bushings to test,and was a super tight fit, needed to be tapped in.
    My arms with the new SP bushings were tight as well, however fit in with some light love taps and pry bars.
    Is this not your past experience?
     
  24. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,430
    socal
    Nope.
    Operative word "lightly." Maybe Scowman was wildly off with his size estimates. 1/8" is big. In streetcars there is a trade off between NVH and performance. A rubber bush is the poorest performance but least NVH to the occupant. Stichon in rubber bushings plus the arm movement is a huge killer of suspension performance. So YMMV. For max performance delrin and monoball are used where the suspension droops in your hand and there is zero play in the parts but NVH is transmitted to the driver and seen as desired "suspension feel." From Scowman's description it sounds like once his a-arms are torqued I could hang from his arm and the a-arm will stay in position resisting my weight. I'm not there seeing it so maybe I'm wrong. That kind of thing makes for unpredictable action on the spring rate. So if using rubber bushings you want them to fit well providing articulation without adding or subtracting from the spring action. So that also means minimal prying with right sized bushings.
     
  25. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2015
    462
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    RJA
    Thanks FBB well described and makes total sense with regard to arm action vs Play...
     

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