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In-period vs. Non-period Rebodies

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 14, 2012.

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What is the cut-off for rebodied cars discussed in this forum?

  1. Absolutely no discussion here of cars without original coachwork or coachwork that appears as origin

  2. Only allow discussion of factory-sanctioned rebodies

  3. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 3 years of construction

  4. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 5 years of construction

  5. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied within 10 years of construction

  6. Only allow discussion of cars rebodied prior to 1980

  7. Allow discussion of all rebodied cars that are not replicas or "recreations" of other models

  8. Other (please explain below)

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  1. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
  2. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    Kim
    No more categories please it's bad enough having two !

    Vadim showed great taste in women as well as his cars.

    Bardot, Annette Strøyberg, Jane Fonda, and Catherine Deneuve !!

    He most likely went to 55 and beach for a lie down
     
  3. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    I have no problem whatsoever calling a car a fake. But to say the car is faking isn't technically correct and so it is not proper and gentlemanly if done so to be defamitory.

    The poor car is most certainly mindless and thus incapable of performing such a feat.

    To say that their owner is faking is to say that their intent is known to you which is improbable.

    I say live and let live.
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #54 miurasv, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
    Yes, Vadim showed great taste in women and cars. However, it was his ability to "achieve them" that was the infinitely greater thing.
     
  5. 65 f.i.

    65 f.i. Karting

    Feb 10, 2008
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    This entire discussion seems silly to me. A Ferrari is a Ferrari regardless of the model it started out as. Why not discuss replicas that are seemingly correct. At the very least, if there is interest in a particular car (especially if the price is approaching six figures) then it would be good to know of the history of that car.
     
  6. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

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    #56 PAUL BABER, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

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    Has anyone else noticed that various auction houses no longer refer to Replicas and Recreations but now describe the cars as EVOCATIONS.........What exactly is an Evocation ?
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    An obfuscation.
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Could the James Cagney and the Boano connection/story have started here?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rQ8ePrNYtU[/ame]
     
  10. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

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    Definitely reaching for the dictionary.......
     
  11. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Marcel Massini on 0627 GT, James Cagney, and "in-period" rebody:
     
  12. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

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    This is very interesting and I'm sure as it comes from Marcel, its true. I was told of the Cagney connection by the owner I was selling it for and passed this on to any interested buyer. Thus perpetuating the story.........Whatever its history may have been, it was / is a wonderful car.
     
  13. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

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    Steve.........I think you may be right. Maybe the car in the film is 0627 and the story started as ...the car in the Cagney film but through the years became James Cagney's car......Well done for finding this.
     
  14. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #64 El Wayne, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
    We've been around and around with this one and have never been able to identify the Boano in that film.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183118
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231568
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=276931
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184827
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183644
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183809
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=259330
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183784

     
  15. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    #65 JazzyO, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Consider the case of 250 Europa 0421GT.

    This car was originally purchased by the father of famous Dutch Ferrari collectors HK and NK. It was sold to England and the brothers tried to buy it back in the '80ies but narrowly lost out to Lord Brockett. In the infamous story, this individual cut up 4 Ferraris and buried the remains on his property to claim insurance money. 0421GT was one of them. After acquiring the remains (chassis, incomplete engine, rear axle and gearbox, all very rusty) at auction in 1996, NK set about recreating the car to its original specification - Hietbrink handcrafted a body using 0363GT as a template, Piet Roelofs did the engineering work, Fabio Calligaris the paintwork based on Jacques Swaters' confirmation of original paint codes.

    In my view, though this car is probably only 10 - 20% original and a non-period rebody, it deserves to be discussed in this section as the owners have set about recreating the original car as far as is humanly possible. The history of car and the process of the rebody is fully documented in a fascinating little book that was published after the restoration.

    The car is now, as far as it is possible to be, the same as it left the factory. A commendable and very expensive effort. So whilst it is not original, it is still 250 Europa 0421GT.


    Onno
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  16. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    845
    Fully agree with you. This is the same identity that the car which left the factory, or body shop. Whether it was put in pieces, burnt racing, or severally damaged or even rebodied for whatever purposes then put back into its original condition , this is THE car it pretends to be.
    Of course when no original piece remain, specially the chassis, this is another problem..recreating a car that do not exist anymore should be off limits. Of course this will always the question of the limit. Using a dormant chassis might be acceptable,,,but a dormant engine and drive train, or just the body to resurrect a car, not acceptable ( specially
    As we may end up with 2 cars, one clone and one " legitimate").
     
  17. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    #67 Enigma Racing, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dear Onno

    Thanks. I remember this car when Charlie Brocket owned it and it was horrible. Red, very shiny and a nasty plastic Scuderia Ferrari sticker. Bearing in mind other cars in his collection, I would not be surprised if it was only "10-20% original" when he owned it.

    The Dutch owner should be congratulated on doing such a great restoration and I agree it is worthy of discussion here.

    Apart from the Europa he also dismantled a 340 America Vignale Spyder (0138AM) and a 195 Sport (0123S). What happened to them ?

    Kim
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  18. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    0138AM was a cabriolet that first got "charlied" all over (he tried to make it look like a hot rod racing car in true 1980's tradition...) then scrapped. It was restored with a new spider body that looks like 0140A Vignale.

    0123S was a project car, some people say almost totally consumed by rust. I understand that what was left after Charlie is slowly being reconstructed/restored.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  19. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    #69 Enigma Racing, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
    Thanks Kare

    Found details of a very shiny 0138A online. Interesting the car was sold fitted with a PF Coupe engine from 1241GT rather than the original engine still in their possession

    http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/858-Ferrari-340%20America%20Spyder%20by%20Vignale-V12
     
  20. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

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    #70 JazzyO, Nov 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    For completion's sake, a pic of 0421GT last September on the Prince Bernhard Memorial drive. What a stunning car. She won the Concours D'Elegance, although that was a fairly informal affair it has to be said.


    Onno

    Picture by Jan Sanderman.
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  21. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    A beautiful car for sure.

    At least it doesn't think it's something that it's not ????????????


    It is what it is. :)
     
  22. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
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    Onno, do you have contact info for Mr. Calligaris? Feel free to PM to me, if you like.

    thanks,
    B
     
  23. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    Onno,

    Your story made me think; in order to avoid a painful classification, maybe it would be better to refer to the work done as a repair/restoration rather than a re-body. In the vein of the discussion at hand, isn't re-body used to describe a process where one body-style is replaced by another?

    Beautiful automobile, but one might expect that from either of the brothers.
     
  24. PAUL BABER

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

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    Did you know that CB is intending to publish a book about his collection ? I was asked to research the cars.......Ironic really as I was employed by the insurers to value the collection when the fraud was first discovered........ Cant wait to see the title of the book
     
  25. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    Paul

    Liz Pipers writing a book on Pipes life entitled "There are Ferraris at the bottom of my Garden" maybe Charlie should do the same !

    Good to catch up the other day

    Kim
     

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