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Indy question.

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Marangen, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    Why is the Indy such good value for money when many other models are becoming very expensive? Like the 3500 GT/Ghibli...

    Any ideas?

    I own an Indy (1971 model) since last year. Low mileage car that has had one caring owner since 1978. Have driven it extensively this summer and can only say that it is a fabulous car. To drive and to look at and to use (family outings etc).

    So why so lowly rated?

    It has the same beautiful v8 engine as Ghibli/Khamsin and with a sound that beats most others. Many same/similar parts/chassi as Gbibli/Khamsin. Alleged 49/51 weight distribution (which other car has that??) and feels supersolid/balanced on road. No vibrations whatsoever. Very precise steering. Great engine power linked to 5 speed ZF box. No complaint about speed. ZF ratios also fantastic. Like a Porsche. 2nd gear takes me easily to way over 60 mph if I want! 110 mph and car cruises at 3800 rpm. Build quality is impressive. Even engine is sometimes referred to as bullet-proof I read so even that seems to be sturdy (yet DOHC and Grand Prix heritage).

    I suspect an old statement that Indys are unattractive somehow has got stuck and many people just judge it from bad photos and have not driven it. Looks fine on most photos but nothing exceptional. Agree to that. But same with so many models. Even Ghibly has some unattractive angles! :) Indy looks much better in reality since very low car and good proportions and modern/70´s look. Tight rear end. Interior design very nice. Car received constant praise this summer by people passing - so something is definitely appealing to at least todays crowd. Tastes change...

    The fact that it seats four and takes luggage - not a big draw-back in my opinion.

    My car: 1971. Early Dash. 4.7 L Servo steering. Blue on Cream interior. Imported in 1978 to Sweden by person who sold it to me. Car very well taken care of, way up north in city of Boden just below the Artic Circle (no rust since never driven in rain/snow).

    Have driven 3000 km this summer (like 50 hours cruising on highway) in Southern Sweden and a quick stop in Copenhagen to see Historic Car race.

    Lots of fun.

    Interested to hear other Maserati/Indy owner opinions.

    Regards,

    Martin
     
  2. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    And forgot to add:

    If Citroen involvement is the problem (which I could understand), only late Indys have some of that. And Khamsin and subsequent 70s maser models.

    More importantly, the Indy was developed/engineered in late 60s when Maserati (and many other car manufacturers) were sparing little costs to produce some of the most exclusive supercars of its day. Far from later Citroen/Tomaso era.

    That latter also explains why the Indy was one of most expensive cars that money could buy. But 2 years down the line and the Oil crisis and 70s recession sent the Indy into oblivion. With only approx 1000 cars ever made (how many remain?) there has been little reason to focus on this model.

    A pity given its fine credentials.
     
  3. MK1044

    MK1044 F1 World Champ
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    Nov 6, 2011
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    Carmine
    Who knows? But anyone here will say that Indys are great cars at a great value.

    Of the road going Maseratis, mostly the Ghiblis and I think more recently the Mistrals and 3500's seem to be the most costly. I suspect that most Bora and Khamsin owners would have the same comment as you regarding the values of our cars.
     
  4. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    All valid points, I have to agree with you, the Indy drives quite nicely, fits 4 grown people and travels nicely over long distances. It even has proper space for luggage.

    Unfortunately, I disagree with you on the looks. It just doesn't look as good as a 3500 or a Ghibli. The 3500 is more elegant and the Ghibli is sportier.

    The Indy is left somewhere in a shapeless mess, not elegant like the 3500 and definitely not sporty like the Ghibli. The round shape of the nose is like a mouth with no teeth, just gums and the rear is unimpressive and uninteresting.

    It just doesn't steer my imagination to drive it hard and fast as a sports car.

    So its not "sensible" like a QP with 4 doors and it is not sporty like a 2-door sports car should be. It is just... too "soft" and "mild"...

    Of course others will disagree with me :)
     
  5. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,700
    I agree with you. The marked does not recognise 4-seater cars as very valuable! All Ferrari 4-seaters are a bargain compared to their 2-seater GT-cars! The Lamborghini Espada is -perhaps- the exeption because its desin was very radical.

    An average Ghibli will always be more valuable -and desired!- as the best Indy!
     
  6. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 staatsof, Aug 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well I got to drive this one for 4 days this Monterey weekend and it was quite lovely driving over the pass from Gilroy to I5. That 4.7 and flawless was flawless with a very broad torque curve though less powerful than the 2002 Spyder I drove on the way back which had numerous drive train issues. The Indy was far more desirable and easier to control. The AC sucked though ... :D

    This one was a deep blue metallic with white interior and was quite stunning. The wire wheels were of course not correct but they look pretty good none the less.

    Thanks to Paul Muselaar for the use of the cars.

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  7. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    Completely agree that 2 seaters are more desirable and often more good/sporty looking.

    But some 2+2 (or "near 4 seaters as Indy and eg Aston Martin v8 is) are fabulous combos wrt design and handling. Outshine the Ferraris that all looked like experimental compromises. Even decent 400i hasn't aged that well.

    I also dare say that Indy is not much less "sporty" to drive than the 3500 GT (which is way older) and Ghibly (which is near identical to Indy).

    So in all the traditional say 100% premium that 2 seaters (from these handful of brands) used to command may be justified on soft issues/alleged desirability. But that has now developed to more like 200+% premium in last 2-3 years. Not in the case for Aston though where cars are (admittedly highly) appreciated for what they are. Indy's are not too different.

    (How do I attach photos by the way?)
     
  8. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
    4,267
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    Jack Verschuur
    The Indy is a gorgeous motorcar, I like the held-back styling a lot. Very classy interior, a proper Maser V-8 in front, all the pedigree you'd want.

    In Europe the Indy was quite something in its' day, but you have to picture it driving around amidst what was the average car the, it was quite big and eye-catching then. There are plenty people who love them.
    In the USA, however, cars were on average much, much bigger, and there were a lot of fast 4-seater coupes. The difference between what was the norm and how special an Indy was, was perhaps not as big in the eye of the general public.

    Bob, in my hometown there was an Indy in the same colour-combo as the one you show in the photos, and today I like it as much as I did then. It just looks so classy!

    It is somehwat unfortunate that another thread just taught me about the last series of Indy's, with the Ghibli/Khamsin wheels and the different dash. Especially the dash is what I have alwats found difficult to accept. If I ever buy one, it'd have to be an example of this last series.

    Even the highest priced Indy I could find was just nearing 40K Euros That would have to be a pretty darn good example. They are a steal.
     
  9. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    Interior is classy indeed.

    Very wide/roomy Recaro seats yet great lateral support. Rear seats also surprisingly wide. Well constructed with great feel to upholstery. No rubber foam or likewise inside. Also good headrests so definitely caters to todays driver concern for safety/comfort. Seating and driving position is superb with 2-way (!!) adjustable steering! Steering wheel itself a piece of art. Has inscribed F.I.V. (made for Shelby Mustangs and Indy).

    Door panels also piece of work with neat air vents under armrests. Solid construction.

    Rest of interior like beautiful full length center console/side pillars/roof lining etc all solid feel and well insulated from wind/road/engine sound.

    Then the dash. Glad there is space for both tastes. :). I love the early dash (new dash comes in mid-1971 produced cars) since it has great european supercar boldness! Double binnacle and stuff in between. Part space part disco is what it evokes in my mind, yet very Italian/classy with 5 small gauges around the 2 big ones. All solid housing. Nothing plastic feel. Later dash definitely mote traditional and catering for US taste. Nothing wrong and equal build quality - but just less outragous.

    One of best engineered and designed interiors in any car from 60-70's. That is a near fact.
     
  10. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    Below the text area that you write your message is an "Additional Options" area with a big button named "Manage Attachments".

    Click that button and a popup window will appear, use the file selector to choose the files you want to upload and click the Upload button, once done you may close the popup window.
     
  11. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    OK Thanks!

    Maybe not doable from an Iphone?

    Don't see the "upload from computer" as being possible to activate.

    Will check from computer (but pics sits on phone!)
     
  12. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    From what I know and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Indy models are:

    4.2 (from 1969, with 440 production cars)

    4.7 (from 1970, with 364 production cars)

    4.9 (from 1972-73, with 300 production cars, 200 of them with citroen stuff)


    The 4.7 has the following items over the 4.2 model:

    two-way adjustable steering column
    anti-theft steering lock
    leather upholstery
    tinted electric windows
    reclining seats
    fog lamps
    heated rear windscreen
    head rests
    dashboard-mounted clock in front of the passenger
    power steering (optional)
    automatic gearbox (optional)
    radio (optional)
    air conditioning (anyone knows?)

    The 4.9 has the following items over the 4.7 model:

    power steering (now standard)
    air conditioning
    2 different gearbox settings
    citroen stuff (200 cars only)


    What I don't know, is when the dashboard changed. Anyone knows exactly? Did it come with the 4.9 models or are there any 4.7 models with the newer dashboard as well?
     
  13. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,700
    The Indy is a great "allrounder".
    And - its perhaps the fastest of all classic GT as it has the best aerodynamics.
     
  14. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    I spoke to Maserati this summer. They offer historical documentation at a high price if you want. Factory order, specification etc. They were cooperative and said that my car was made in Dec 1970. They also said that the early dash was discontinued in mid 1971.

    My car has chassi nr AM11647744

    So at what chassinumber they start putting in the new dash I dont know. I think however that there should be 4.7L available with new dash. The may the ones called Indy America? They scrap the America name for the 4.9L?

    As for options, the 4.7 was identical to 4.2 wrt options as far as I know and have seen. Head rests same. AC also. Power steering and radio (and automatic) were the main options. I have seen factory sun-roof option on photo but only once! Very rare option I guess. Also read that limited slip differential was an option. Not sure if true.

    Then 4.2L had the smaller ZF gearbox (still 5 speed) I have heard.

    4.9 may have had servo as standard. Sounds logical.
     
  15. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    As for Walters comment I agree. Aerodynamics are noticably impressive. Drive att high speeds and let go of throttle. Nothing happens. Cuts through air like a knife. Also means that wind noise is relatively low.

    Fuel consumption at high speeds not too bad either. Eg. Cruised mostly at 80-100 mph for long drive and covered 330 miles. 1 passenger. 4-5 hours. Filling car up it had consumed 21 US gallons in that distance. 16-17 mpg not too bad for such speeds. (20 mpg in UK/imperial).
     
  16. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    A couple of years ago I had a very nice Espada for sale (series 3 with power steering, interesting color combo, etc). That car was extremely difficult to sell.

    The more practical a car is the lower the resale value.

    Ivan
     
  17. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 staatsof, Aug 21, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
    The 4.7 I drove last week had the later dash and power steering. It was fitted with after market 15" wire wheels which pushed the wheels out too far so it was fitted with 225/60-15" tires. I was talking with fellow Bora (dark green) owner Wilson Werhan and he mentioned he used to own an Indy with the Khamsin starburst style wheels on it. I don't know about the Citroen hydraulics though. I haven't seen or driven one of those though I know there are some over here.

    The interiors on these cars are IMHO better put together than those on a Bora, Khamsin, Merak.

    I did miss not having wind wing vents and I could not get fresh air through the vents in the dash that wasn't terribly hot even even though the heater was turned off and the water line was suitably blocked. That part was no fun on the hot days I drove the car. The AC was inoperable on the example I was driving so I have opinion about it's suitability.

    My quick photos don't due the car's color combination justice. It's actually quite stunning in person.

    BTW, that's Colin Craig's new black Indy along side the blue one. He picked it up in Monterey and he is currently driving it back to home. It's an earlier example possibly a 4.2?
     
  18. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
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    Martin M
    Sounds like the "Ventilatore" (2 speed cabin fan) was not working? (Orange lamp on speedo dial lights up and fresh air flows through vents!). Driving car with so much glass windows without ventilation is terribly unagreeable. Really not nice. Agre would have loved car to have quarter vents. One of few design mistakes imo!

    2 drag-switches (wire operated) with fan symbols should also be opened to let air through.

    Colour combo must be great! Like a mid/regular blue metallic? Not light/dark blue but in between? Can you check what colour code that blue is?

    Many thanks. Martin
     
  19. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Fans were working but it was hotter with them on than off. Best possible combination was fans off and vents closed. I had not time to get into why it was so hot except to satisfy myself that the heater water circulation was indeed stopped. I also download the Indy manual (thanks Ivan) and it was huge. Yes the two slide switches were in the correct position as well so?

    Owner said it's just a hot car. Once in the Monterey area it was no longer an issue.

    It drove very nicely at speed for a very old lady and entertained well ... ;)
     
  20. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    I agree - but this was the situation some years ago! Now a good to perfect Espada is recognised by the market.
     
  21. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Then much must have changed since May, 2010 :)

    Ivan
     
  22. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Yes, probably..:)
     
  23. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

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    Martin M
    No other Indy owners out there agreeing or of other interesting opinions?
     
  24. Merak1974

    Merak1974 Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2009
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    Gabriel R.G. Benito
    I don't have one, but regard myself as entitled to an opinion nevertheless :)

    The current value of any car probably reflects to a very large extent its expected resale value at a fairly near future point.

    There are many factors that may influence the desirability of a (classic) car, hence its value and ultimately its price on the market, among which brand, history (ownership, racing etc.), power and beauty rank high. Usability and functionability don't. Rarity is of course a factor, but works typically together with some other positive factor. Rarity is by itself not sufficient.

    Indys are as rare as the Ghibli, arguably more practical, and almost as quick. Of course, opinions about beauty differ, but although it's a very nice Vignale design most people think it's outshined by some of its siblings and competitors of its days. Being a 2+2 doesn't help. They typically lag 2-seat models by quite some distance regardless of the brand. In relative terms, the 2+2 Ferraris have probably been hurt more - both in terms of price difference and in terms of survival rates - than Maseratis and Lamborghinis.

    I suppose a prudent approach for now is to regard them as relatively inexpensive, but impressive and great looking and driving cars that can actually be used on a regular basis...

    Cheers,
    Gabriel
     
  25. masermad

    masermad Rookie

    Jan 13, 2009
    25
    Yes, maybe a bargain price Maserati but keep it secret, you might want to buy another!
    I prefer style of Indy in preference to Ghibli, but just my own likes & dislikes.
    Even if the Ghibli was the same price I'd prefer to have the Indy.
    Some people like the Mexico, I can appreciate it but I prefer to own the Indy.
    Maybe prices are reasonable because Indy has a unitary body construction & not a separate chassis, & typical 70's steel rust problems.
    People like things with a chassis, the Espada also suffered from these issues I think but was a good car if you got one to work on all 12 & not overheat.
    All can suffer from rust but is perhaps considered more serious when the body is a box & depends on the overall structural integrity.
    Perhaps because of the rust issue many in Europe have been dismantled, I suspect the same in USA. I don't know the remaining numbers but in UK it might be about 20 or so.
    In the main there seems no market for the Indy & dealers have a job to shift them, but that suits me fine.
    I think there are other Indy owners who quietly love 'em, it only matters if you want to buy & sell, or worry about appreciation. Best not care about the latter.
     

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