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Info on Testa Rossa replicas ?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by WILLIAM H, Mar 20, 2004.

  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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  2. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    William, With the exception of the white interior the car looks pretty good. My experience has shown that these cars are always worth more new. The resale value is not good and it is often the second owner who gets a good deal. The driving experience car be just as goos though and many time only the real die hards know the difference. You have chosen a TR59 of which there were no left hand drive version, a dead give away. I have had a TR58 and a D Type Jag and loved both of them. Good luck! What happened to the 962 idea?
     
  3. trkevin

    trkevin Formula Junior

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  4. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    RE the 962, I found out how much maintenace was, Sheesh & people complain about Testarossa maintenance costs :)

    Were your 58 TR & D type originals ? Very nice :)
     
  5. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    The D type was made by Brian Wingfield, it was a long nose in Ecurie Ecosse Blue, with a 4.2 liter motor. The TR58 was made by Giardenengo and assembled in house. Fabulous to drive and a real pleasure to look at. Real TR59s have a very short chassis and are cramped for tall people. Many replicas have a slightly longer chassis. There is a replica DR2 Aston Martin in Vero Beach which is fabulous.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    William,

    Please buy an already built one ...

    Pete
     
  7. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    This is interesting also http://www.nostalgia-classic.com/specialty.htm

    Its not really a replica of anything as much as an amalgamum of Testa Rossa, DBR1, & C type. Very nice looking , Its the green car at the top of the page. Maybe if they could build me 1 with a 400i or 550 drivetrain that could be way cool. I'd add a fairing behind the driver like on the TR. What do you think ?
     
  8. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    WH, I think the car looks neat but you would get killed on resale, if you should ever decide to sell it. It has no identity. I was always shunned by the purists when I drove my cars, the Nostalgia car seems one step further away. Are the Nostalgia cars inexpensive? Are they fiberglass?
     
  9. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    No its aluminum & its around $85k bcus its basically hand built. But it is original, not a replica of anything
     
  10. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    F--- 'em. I bet you still loved those cars you had. I'd love to have a replica (the key: well-made replica. Not a F'Glass shell on a Corvette. Bespoke tubular space frame, Ferrari V-12 engine, etc...) of one of these classics for the feel and the experience and wouldn't care what anyone else would think of it. As for resale... Sure, it's alot of money one will never see again, but, at least one would have enjoyment out of it!
     
  11. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    David, the 2 main players in this field now seem to be Tempero & the Fine Sportscar Co. I spoke to Ashton at FSC yesterday & he told me they sratch build the frame in Aus & install a 330 engine with a ZF trans which is a lot better than the original trans & the frame is likely much better than the original also bcus of new tech.

    Are you familiar with the differences between the 2 cars ? Thanks
     
  12. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

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    I would REALLY love to have one of these! The '59 TR looks great! As to being shunned by the purists.... screw 'em. If it looks like a TR, sounds like a TR, drives like a TR, handles like a TR and upon close inspection is extremely close in detail to a TR....... who really cares if the serial number was not issued by Ferrari? A real one would cost you 30 times more $$$.

    If you could find a used Tempero that would probably be a cheaper way of going, but you may wait years.

    Personally, I would have to consider the D-type. A long nose D with fin and aero screen for the driver only and alloy cover over the passenger seat area, Ecurie Ecosse blue.

    I really wish they sold these in kit form. If you could buy a complete kit minus engine and other bits you would take from the donor it could be a cheaper and more fun way to go.

    I wonder if they could modify and use the engine from a 400 series sedan? It would sure seem much easier to find a $15K clapped out old 400 than to find a rusty hulk of a GTE. Seems most of the really bad GTEs have already been converted. Besides.... the 400 engine if modifed to carbs and setup right would generate tons more power. Imagine.... a 4 cam 6 carb V12 powered '59 TR......

    One day....


    Terry
     
  13. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    WH,, I believe that the Fine Sports Car Co. has their supplier in Australia or at least they used to. I noticed that PSK has replied to this thread and he is from Sydney. Perhaps he could shed some light on the subject? I don't know Tempero. Favre was making cars in Switzerland years ago and got shut down. This frightened many of the Italians I know in and around Modena. David Cottingham did some very good TRs a few years back. I believe that Bill Locke had one and it was beautiful. It had a 500 TRC body with a 250 engine. I do like the transaxle setup for handling and weight distribution. Make sure the car has a torque tube and not a floating drive shaft.
     
  14. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    The 365 GT4 2+2 engine and the 400 engines are less expensive than a 250. The size of those engines is much larger and may not fit in the engine bay. Might even require the chassis to be lengthened. This would throw the dimensions out of proportion. Those engines are great for 330P3/4 cars. Most of all I think the velocity stacks on top of the 3 liter engine are one of its' most attractive features. I would spend the extra money, you'll be mad you didn't.
     
  15. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Thats putting it lightly, I heard Favre was killed
     
  16. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Pete, what do you know about the Fine SportsCar store that I should know ?
    Has anyone had trouble with cars or cars not delivered ? Ashton told me their factory is in Adelaide, thanks
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I really like the D type also but I like the TR more. Ashton told me that the FSC TR has a scratch built ladder frame which is doubtlessly of better quality than the original frame merely bcus of 40+ years of tech. FSC also puts disc brakes on all its cars unless some1 asks for drums. They use a ZF trans, I know from experience that even 1980s & 1990s Ferrari transmissions are a weak spot. FSC also uses the engine out of a 330 bcus 250GTE engines are getting very rare & the original TR engine is like $45k, just for the engine. Ouch!!!

    The way I look at it, I'd be buying a very nice modern sports car with a vintage Ferrari engine & vintage Ferrari looks. Its not a real $6M TR but its a real nice sports car :)

    I'd get one with a roll bar & a modern ignition system
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    William,

    I don't know anything about that company, sorry. The reason I said that is it is the purist in me speaking. I'm not going to hijack your thread or anything, but I am very much against buying any existing Ferrari and robbing it of parts for a replica. All this does is reduce the number of surviving Ferraris as once you are shunned from the knowledgable you will sell the car and it then spirals down hill until the car ends up sitting unloved on a wreckers yard. Thus if you buy an existing replica somebody has already gone past the point of no return and you do not have to destroy another genuine Ferrari.

    Everybody has different tastes and the 365/400/412's that you guys talk about like they are heaps of junk are somebodies favourite Ferrari, and people like me with not a huge amount of money are looking for restorable ones so that we too can own a Ferrari ... in the end we have an up hill battle to fight off you replica guys that are only interested in destroying 'our' chance of owning a real Ferrari.

    Hence why I sent you that link for that engine ... it has already lost its chassis and thus a good place to start for a replica, without the guilty concense.

    While there are some Ferraris that have been completely destroyed, just about anything can be restored ... you should see the pictures of my Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV restoration ... about 70% of the body shell will have been replaced due to rust repairs by the time I have finished. Some of us enjoy this process.

    It is a pity that Ferrari does not make a modern 3 litre v12, as modern Ferraris are writen off by the rich boys 3 or 4 times a week ... and they just go and buy another. In the end who cares about new Ferraris as they are still making them, but with the old ones, replica makers are simply reducing the stock for the rest of us.

    Now I would not feel guilty at all building a D type or GT40 replica, because donor engines and components are a dime a dozen ... but a Ferrari replica you are talking about production runs of only hundreds :(

    All the best for your search.
    Pete
     
  19. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

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    We have had this discussion before.... but I really just dont get it.

    No Ferrari is being "lost" because nobody is going to trash a decent condition GTE for a replica. Folks use clapped out cars beyond economical restoration. If I am wrong on this... give me a REAL example of someone converting a nice condition car. Even one real example and I'll reconsider my position.

    Besides, who is to say in the future you wont buy the rusted out hulk of the GTE from the bone yard, then purchase the replica from the boneyard (since you say thats where the replica will end up) and just restore the GTE.

    There are plenty of us out here who could care less what the purists think and wouldnt even notice if we are "shunned". I like a car because of how it appeals to ME. I dont buy a car because of what someone else thinks of it or me for owning it. Driving a faithful recreation of a '59 TR would be a blast and if some snob at Cavallino turns his nose up at me I would just laugh.

    Again... I am NOT an advocate of destroying perfectly good Ferraris to make replicas. But using a rusted out hulk of car as the basis is just fine. If a GTE that would cost $120K to restore and be worth $60k when done is turned into a '59 TR replica instead... I would say that particular GTE is living a better and more exciting second life!

    Then again.... to each his own.


    Terry
     
  20. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    A few people were PO'd by my 512TR race car in my profile but only like 1 or 2 people. Everybody else loves the car, I do too :) I rebuilt that car from a crashed hulk that nobody knew what to do with.

    Its not a replica but FNA isnt thrilled with the car either. Maybe after I kick some Viper, Vette, & Porsche booty with it FNA will like it more :)
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    We have lost a few 250 Pininfarina Coupes to replicas ... some would say no matter how bad they are they should have been restored. A 275GTB was restored from only the front cross member was found ... thus anything is restorable.

    Good point ... but many of the difficult to find items will be missing.

    Restorations are not about making money ... why people cannot get past that point is beyond me. The only reason Ferraris have been restored in the past is because really, really rich guys want to own them and have a blank cheque book attitude. Read some of Nick Mason's books ... he is very honest about how much money he has poured into restoring some of his cars ... money that will never, ever come back.

    Take my GTV for example I have spent more on that car than I could buy a really nice one for. I do not care, I am enjoying the restoration and will at the end have one of the best GTV's in the world. The money I spent has been spent on my hobby, the car has just benefited ... but I'll never get it back and would never expect to.

    The same can be said in relation to motorsport, you never recoup that money that you spend developing and competing. The money goes on your interest and is never returned when you sell the car (er, give it away).

    Thus please, please sort talking about economically viable restorations ... NO such thing, and for people like me, who do NOT have a couple of millions tucked away, buying a rusty old Ferrari and then spending 5-10 years restoring it is the ONLY way I will ever own a old Ferrari. The cost over the years may add up to more than I could have bought one ... but with out the restoration, I would have just spent it on the normal family running stuff.

    Anyway PM me if you want to continue this discussion.
    Pete
     
  22. JonBrent

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  23. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran
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    Extremely sad. To think that at this point in time, 40 years after these cars were made, somebody is still hacking them apart just for the drivetrain. Might as well hang them up on giant meat hooks in a warehouse like sides of beef ready to be parted out. What a disgusting way to treat a decent car that so many people would like to restore. Anything for a buck, eh?
     
  24. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

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    Jonathan.....

    No I am NOT happy. What kind of a moron would strip for a replica a GTE that was really only needing a minor restoration to bring it back into use? That really is a stupid move. I dont know where you got the impression from my prior posts that I hated the 2+2s or didnt care if good cars are stripped. I did however assume that the old car world in general was smarter than this and would only break up a really bad car. Clearly.... I was wrong. No question, that is a shame and a sad end to a good car.

    Pete... I know where your coming from. I have restored several cars from the ground up sinking double the money into them that they were later sold for. I once owned a TR6 that I had restored and had over $18K in that I sold for $8K. I didnt really care because I had a ton of fun with the car. I have also owned several GTVs and I LOVE those Alfas! You should start another topic under the other italian section and post some pics, I would really like to see them.

    I would never advocate breaking up a restorable Ferrari to make a replica. I just dont see any issue with breaking one that is in really sorry shape. I know we are never going to agree on this point.... so no point argueing it.


    Terry
     
  25. Horsefly

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