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Installed "upgraded" baffle . .. still overfill?

Discussion in '308/328' started by luckydynes, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    Hey all,

    Might go crash a P-car autocross this weekend so I decided to install the upgraded baffle . .. slightly overfull still saw the oil pressure drop on a hard right :(

    You guys still over-filling by a quart?

    Thanks,

    Sean
     
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  3. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    That's not promising...

    I would think that you don't need to. Keep us posted on what happens during the auto-x.
     
  4. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    I put the baffle in my 308 last spring and had it on the track at Watkins Glen this summer. I saw no drop in oil pressure, the baffle worked perfectly.
     
  5. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Something is not right here.

    I have the baffle and after years of fighting this oil thing on the track I was able to enjoy a full day at Talladega Gran Prix for the FIRST TIME with no psi drop last Aug. Just last Sunday I was at the Dunlop Proving Grounds and I tested it on their skidpad until I was dizzy. Not a flicker. It is actually a little unbelievable how well it works.

    I don't over fill either.
     
  6. RVIDRCI

    RVIDRCI Formula 3

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    Mine works perfectly also. This is on the big track at WS, though, not insane skid pad doughnut drifting. I myself still run on the high side of max full, just to allow for SC positive breather losses.
     
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  8. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
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    Sean,

    What do you mean by pressure loss, i.e. how much pressure? What type and weight oil? Also, how much oil is in the car to start out with? I too, have installed the oil baffle and both Autocross and track my car. No oil pressure problems.
     
  9. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    I saw it "flick" just momentarily down to 5-10 . .. light didn't come on and I really jerked the wheel . .. don't think I'd be pulling sustained g's like that without slicks.

    20-50 oil.

    How aggressive are you guys when you track? I want someone with a baffle installed to come for a drive with me . .. Lou . . what lap time you set at Willow? A couple years ago when I had a set of bald TRX's on the car and a worn out fuel injected engine, guys who went thru the mountains with me thought I was running slicks ;)

    Sean
     
  10. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Sean,

    I run pretty darn aggressive. I did have slicks on the car at WG, and no sign of pressure drop at all. And there are a couple of very high-G turns at the Glen, if you are moving. I did not overfill the oil, it's just at Max full line, did not put in an extra quart and my oil pressure is nice and steady now.

    Steve
     
  11. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    Before I go calling all you guys wuss's ;), does anyone know where the full mark is realitive to the gearbox/block parting line? If I remember correctly, 1 qt over put it right at the parting line "roughly" . . . wandering if this is where regular full should be . . . .this dipstick is out of a different engine but wouldn't think any differences?

    Other thing I thought is if the swinging windage door is stuck "up" . . . but this is more of a problem when the engine is upside down and you're putting the pan on.

    Thanks,

    Sean
     
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  13. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    Do you beat up on a majority of the Pcars that are prepared similar to your car (which is really fun ;)) . . . any year including new ones except GT3 but including turbo?

    Thanks,

    Sean
     
  14. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Sean, I don't know if it already been ask but, How is your oil pressure sending unit, is it new or old?
    I'm just thinking that could be the reason. Or it could be as simple as loose connection when turning hard right.
     
  15. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    Regarding oil level . .. I put 8 1/2 qts in after oil and filter change when I pulled the pan and it was reading about just a pinch over full . ... seem to recall someone mentioning 10 qts with filter?

    I just hooked my data acq system up again so I'll go get some cornering g-force numbers. Also, I am not having the problem on "sweepers" . . . yet . . . I'm not that fast :) . .. but more autocross driving conditions which I know you guys are doing. This P car club runs a fast autocross track . . . I think SCCA limits top speed to 55-65 . . . don't know for sure . . . but the courses the P club sets up you get near 100 occasionaly but always around 90 and then massive braking zone so the oil gets slung forward and then right turn (depending which way they run course) . . . it sucks having to keep an eye on the gauge and I really hope this baffle works with more oil.


    Sean
     
  16. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    That could be . . . electrical connections/components can do wierd things . . . the sendor looks like it was replaced at some point but it's definitely more than 12 years old (how long I've owned it).

    I've got adapters for a mechanical gauge . . . be an easy test.

    I'm going for another test drive here in a few . . . I'll see if I can get the light to come on too :)

    Thanks for the thought,

    Sean
     
  17. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Sean,

    In the "toe of the boot" at Watkins Glen, you come down a straight ("laces of the boot") at full throttle after a long high speed left hand sweeper, then hard threshold braking with downshift, then throw the car into a very tight, uphill, 180 deg. right hand turn, onto another straight ("sole of the boot"), hard braking with downshift and another hard right hand turn ("heel of the boot"). If the pressure is going to drop anywhere, it would do it there. But mine didn't. I've also autocrossed the car on a course with some very tight right hand turns, and no pressure drop.

    As for beating up on Pcars, I do that in my Corvette. The 308 was not bought to race, just to enjoy. I autocrossed and tracked it at the FCA National Meet in Watkins Glen this year because it was a Ferrari-only event, so couldn't bring the Vette.

    Regards,
    Steve
     
  18. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #15 luckydynes, Nov 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks for that . . . you ever seen any data for cornering g's you're pulling?

    I just went around the block and would pull sustained .98 easily if I wasn't having to look down at the gauge. Gauge didn't budge but I am overfull again. Gonna go check by how much in a minute or two.


    edit: sorry for blurred photo . . . fastest way to get it off that laptop which is "isolated" from the net
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  19. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    No, never had any equipment in the car to measure that. Just seat of the pants. Interesting data though.

    So, if you are not dropping now, and if the worst was a minor blip that showed some drop but not to dead zero, is there really a problem to worry about?
     
  20. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    I hope not . .. autocrossing I try and push harder mentally but I think .98 -1 g is pretty much the limit of break away . . . my old motor I saw the light come on several times and didn't blow her up so I feel pretty safe :)

    She's overfull according to dipstick but of course that depends how long I wait . . . within 1 minute of shut down it's at full.

    Just for info I checked out where the level was with the engine running . .. someone else check this 'cause it'll eliminate the drain back variable time . .. mine was at the low level with the engine running.

    Thanks,


    Sean
     
  21. pad

    pad Formula 3

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    To test the baffles effectiveness, find an empty parking lot, put on your slicks, and start going round in continuous circles to tire threshold. For my testing, I would circle around in one direction for at least 10 times to get the oil moved to one side of the sump as much as possible.

    I have done this without the baffles and with my 2.5 qt Accusump disconnected and the oil pressure dropped to about 10 lbs. With the Accusump connected, the pressure dropped to about 30 lbs. After installing the baffles, and with Accusump disconnected, the pressure dropped to about 75 lbs. With the Accusump connected, the pressure stayed at 85 lbs. Note that with the Accusump and 2 forward mounted oil coolers, the car holds about 12 quarts of oil.
     
  22. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    What about turns with camber?

    Anyone happen to know the skid pad value auto magazines came up with?
     
  23. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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  24. wise3

    wise3 Formula Junior

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    The highest test result I recall for a stock 308 was 0.87 G. I don't remember which magazine, but it was a test of a 2-valve on the stock 14's and XWX's. Looking through the Brookland and Motor compilations, the only results I see are 0.804 G from R & T 2/77 and 0.80 from Road Test 9/74 (on a GT4). Again, 14's and XWX's. Thoroughbred & Classic's 7/78 test with the then-optional (in Europe) 16's and Pirelli P7's did not include any G results....
    With current gummy autocross / track street-legal tires on 16's, you should be able to handily better those numbers.
     
  25. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #22 luckydynes, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey all,

    Well I had to add another qt of oil at the autoX . . . here's some pic's of the girl in action . . . . made some new believers out of the P gang.

    This is with stock springs, big sway bars, race alignment, and street tires pulling close to a g on cornering . . . . so any suggestions on how I might of installed this baffle wrong?

    Thanks,

    Sean
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  26. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Great action photo, nice 308. How is the oil pressure gauge during the turn?:)
     
  27. pad

    pad Formula 3

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    It's great to see the cars being exercised. The JCNA clubs run 4 Slaloms (Autocrosses) each year in NJ. Ferraris always welcome. It's the same course we setup and ran at the 2007 FCA International Meet at Watkins Glen last August.

    I'm not sure how you could have incorrectly installed the oil baffles. I installed 2 last winter. If I remember correctly, I had to enlarge the 4 mounting holes and had to reposition the 2 holes on the "wings” in order to pop rivet them into place. Other that that, the installation was straightforward. The only thing I can think of is that your baffle doors are jammed open.
     
  28. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    Okay once I added another qt . . . probably about 1-1/4 to 2 qt over full depending on how long I wait after shut down. Haven't gone down to play yet but I was curious where your guys oil measures when your engine's running and warmed up? I know that's not what the manual says to do.

    I must admit, once I added another qt I briefly looked down during one of the right handers, didn't see it move, and didn't look at it again . . . started getting real busy behind the wheel :)
     

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