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Installing a K&N Air Filter for 328 (#33-2518)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Ron328, Dec 1, 2003.

  1. Ron328

    Ron328 Formula 3
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    Mar 10, 2003
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    Ron
    I am getting ready to install the aforementioned. Is this a "simple" and straightforward procedure? Anything to watch out for? Tips? Thanks again and sorry for being a headache.

    Thanks,
    Ron
     
  2. HGParts

    HGParts Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2003
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    Heiko from HGParts
    no big deal take the old one out and the new one in. the KN is ready to go. make sure it´s realy in the box and not sticking out so you can close the airfiltercover

    Heiko
    HGParts
    Sponsor of FerrariChat
    email: hgparts@arcor.de
    Webshop: http://stores.andale.com/hgparts
     
  3. Ron328

    Ron328 Formula 3
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    Thanks a lot Heiko! Ron
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Phil Hughes
    If you're not cat equipped, make sure to optimise the change by ensuring correct/slightly rich setting of mixture and tickover speed.

    Set engine to have 1 - 1.2% co at 1000rpm at oil temp of 80 deg c, with HC at about 200 Max and it'll be great.

    Always adjust the mixture from the weaker side of adjustment, as the plate settles better on the screw that way and your adjustment will be more consistent.

    It won't harm it to just throw in the new one, but get it tuned to be sure.
     
  5. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Dont do it!

    It would seem that K&N have a much better marketing department than they do research and development.

    they could sell sand to the arabs!

    K&N filters are 'notorious' for oiling down hotwire sensors and causing problems. More importantly they also admit high levels of silica, the stuff that comes off the road when its worn down by traffic. people who do oil analysis have good data with K&N and the readings <high silicon content with K&N as they let more unfiltered material into the motor.

    Anyone who thinks they are going to get more performance outof a ferrari by fitting one of these is sadly mistaken! Ferrari is fanatical about engineering they are not going to put and ineffective filter to restrict power
    For instance, say you have an airbox 7x12 filter medium. That would be 84 squre inches of very high flow K&N and because K&N has a little weave lets say its 100 sq inches
    The standard filter is one inch tall and has 10 double sided pleats per inch, therefore it has 7in of width like the K&N but also 20in of filter medium per in of length due to the 10 double sided pleats. Therefore 1 inch of stock filter has more surface area than the entire K&N
    The stock filter will not flow as well as a K&N in for in but it does not need to, it has so much more surface area it can afford to pass a smaller amount per sq in, filter much better and still provide more air than the weakest link in the system which is normally the throlttle body.

    Not one single dyno test that we have done gives any indication that the K&N improves power, higher flow is less filtration.

    save your motor!
     
  6. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Here we go again.......

    Firstly, I haven't used K&N for ages, as I have a better closer cheaper source in "Green Cotton" in Australia, so my comments are based on those and the BMC filters also....as used bt Ferrari F1.

    Secondly, 355F, your statement is wholly inaccurate. Dyno tests do not show throttle response times and THAT is where there are HUGE gains to be had. Peak power and torque is usually only increased by 1 - 5 % depending on many variables...BUT IT IS INCREASED, always.

    The std paper filters are a cheap to produce hi volume product, and do not offer 100% performance AND 100% filtration....what does.?

    The gain is not necessarily from VOLUME of air flow, but SPEED.

    I repeat, try them in a 550...I was blown away by the difference. I even reverted back again to check and proved it. It seems the higher the air consumption (big engine/high revs), the bigger the difference.

    I've sold over 20 filters in the last few months, from demonstration and recommendation of other users.

    "Oiling up" of hot wire air flow meters would only come from incorrect filter preparation, which I admit is easy, but instructions are given so use them.

    Anyway, 328's dont have air flow meters...!!
     
  7. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Firstly I did not suggest that the 328 have airflow meters!!!!!

    This was a geenral post refering to the engines we have had on the dynos over the past year.

    Ah...... the dyno cant tell- its on the road!! The fact still is they **** up te engine in the long run, better mid response or not!!
     
  8. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Ah...book it in to the dyno, we'll find you some BHP...that old chestnut!!

    Engine/chassis Dyno's generally have poor air feed to air boxes, and invariably higher air inlet temp, and therefore less density/

    Engine Dyno's generally have poor engine cooling control, often using no thermostats or coolant, meaning lower surface tension of coolant and basically different combustion chamber operating temperatures.

    Rngine/chassis Dyno's are generally at the mercy of the operator, and have a tendancy to be vastly different each test, without any changes made.

    The filtration of air is massively insignificant in the whole spectrum of engine wear. The hostile environment of reciprocating metal components, carbon particles, fuel, air, water and oil inside the combustion chamber all have much more bearing on engine behaviour and wear, than a few molecules of pollen and dust.

    The most valuable use for Dyno's is to run in and system check engines and transmissions before serious use, and the convenience of not having to install it into a car and have development time restricted by unrelated chassis problems, beyond that, they're just a very expensive toy with minimal impact to real world experience.

    And I say that from 17 years experience.


    If you worry about air particles wearing out your engine, I'm amazed you ever drive a car for fear of wearing your shoe soles out.
     
  9. CraigFL

    CraigFL Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2001
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    Craig
    One of he controversies I've heard is that the newer cars have mass ariflow sensors that use a "hot-wire" type sensing system. The oil can collect on the wire and burn to it causing problems...
     
  10. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
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    Rob Guess
    Every Dyno test that i have done on a motorcycle shows that there is a loss of HP using K+N filters on average 2-3%

    It is product that there marketing department does a good job of passing it off as the "Best Air filter in the World!". in reality it is a product similar to splitfire spark plugs. Seat of the pants impressions are great, But the dyno results do not lie.

    These results are held in climate controlled dyno cells and single change modifications and every time the K+N makes less HP.

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Rob,
    That would make sense, since the great majority of motorcycles are (were?) carburated. Adding a higher flowing air cleaner would only lean out the mixture more. That is why all the of the "jet kits" for motocycles always include a K&N air filter, to maximize the advantages of the richer jets. In fact, the kits usually have two or three sets of jets, based on whether you are using individual filters for each carb, or a single filter, and/or higher flowing muffler.

    I have not been into bikes much in the last 10 years or so, but the old magazine articles I remember always showed a power loss with a aftermarket muffler or air filter. It required richer jetting to take advantage of the higher flow of the intake and exhaust changes.

    I don't think it applies with FI, since the air flow meter compensates for the higher intake or exhaust flow immediately. On FI Ferraris, it seems that those that have posted before/after have had mixed results...that is some have shown some improvement, others have shown a slight loss.

    My thought on the reason for this, is that K&N doesn't really spend the development time trying to optimize the filter for each application...so they just make something up that fits in the airbox...sometimes it results in improvement....sometimes not.
     
  12. Slomo

    Slomo Karting

    Nov 22, 2003
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    Bellevue, WA
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    David Chambers
    Hello,

    To build on what Davehanda said, although I am no expert, I have used K&N filters in both cars and several bikes. My experience with the cars is "seat of the pants" and I honestly couldn't tell any difference. I also never got the promised increased mileage. I suppose if you only change your filter every five years then a new K&N would probably give you those gains. Otherwise I am not sure.

    On my bikes (old dinosaurs, ZX-10, Honda CB-900 and CB-1100) it is even more unclear to me. I put in K&N filters in combination with new jets and exhaust systems. I got major gains on the dyno of 10-20%. I did not then put back in the old filter to see if there was a difference with filter alone.

    I have to say that Ferrarifixer seems to know what he is talking about, though. Anytime you increase flow, be it heads, exhaust, etc. you need to increase richness to maximize any gain, or realize any gain at all.

    My useless two bits

    Dave (the other Dave in Seattle)
     
  13. Slomo

    Slomo Karting

    Nov 22, 2003
    145
    Bellevue, WA
    Full Name:
    David Chambers
    One more thought/question. Has anyone got any direct experience where their engine died an early death, and upon examination you/your mechanic could definitively say, "Yup, dirty air wore the 'sum ***** out in half the normal time!"?

    Dave
     
  14. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Yes definatately, but its in vehicles that have done 50K and have to have tha engines pulles for some reason. Thats when the 'high filtration' shows its effects.
     

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