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Discussion in '458 Italia/488' started by eberro, Jul 16, 2015.
Wow. Guess proof is not enough with you guys. I’m done here, I’m not going to argue with anyone, I almost died and many others almost did and can vouch for it and I posted proof. Good luck guys I’m out, you’ve been warned your 458s are a death trap. People have died and we have silly discussions about the legitamicy of mechanics on a track. My life has value and I’m not going to let a negligent corporation like Ferrari and bunch of sheep take it away from me. Proof was posted. Enjoy your widow maker. 458=death trap. Good luck sheep.
I wholly believe that banker guy who accidentally killed someone may not have been at fault. Wake up people. I posted proof. I’m more passionate about this issue now after reading deeper and realizing there has been death because of a known fault in the 458 braking system. Now that I know people have died I can’t stand idly by. I have proof posted of fault in the 458 braking system and anyone is welcome to message me. Wake up people people have died. I’m selling my 488 now as well. I’ll post proof for all you guys so you know you’re driving a death trap.
I think not, for a reason: I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari made around 20.000 units of the 458 across all variants. You then have to cut down from that number the cars whose owners are online here, and even further those who have experienced a braking problem. In terms of numbers, it's difficult to assess if this topic is a representative sample of the problem. A widowmaker, like the first 911 Turbo for instance, is a car that no matter what, has a specific attitude and problem no matter what marker and/or circumstance. That generic truth, so far imho, does not apply to the 458, at least until a more scientific analysis can be made.
I for one am not prepared to discard your personal experience, nor the time you spent sharing it with us, for the benefit of the community. I actually thank you for that. What I can't accept is namecalling/branding people, no reason for that. It's easier to remain cordial and positive.Hate is like braking: wasted energy.
Fair enough, I had a couple drinks in me when I posted the widowmaker comment. It was worded as a question, not a statement. Nor did I call anyone names.
Not sure where you got the hate part, but hey, I see your'e a moderator and you have to keep things civil and/or earn your keep. I had to take my car in at least 5 times until they were able to duplicate the problem and I hated the nightmare of the whole experience. But I never mentioned that part of the story.
I've done my part and provided proof of my specific experience. I will refrain from any further posts on this matter unless someone has a specific question.
It's a beautiful day in Southern California, I think I'll put the top down on my 488, pick up my girl, and go for a drive along the coast. I'm still getting used to how fast that car is......what a difference from it's predecessor! Luckily it can stop.
By the way, I love the forum. Keep up the good work!
By the way, this link doesn't work, it appears under the moderators comment:
No drinking and driving pal ... and I think ... also no drinking and Forum
That sounds like a wonderful plan, cityvibe!
Like I said before, I thank and appreciate your contribution to this discussion and your account of your personal experience. I can only imagine what you've been through and I'm truly sorry the 458 experience didn't go as planned.
If people keep sharing their stories and follow on your footsteps, I believe we can get somewhere. I'm also very happy to know you like the forum, and you're very welcome here always!
How are you finding your 488's brakes in comparison to the 458's? I felt that 488's brakes were marginally better around town (probably a lot better and a more noticeable difference on a track with regard to a 458 - which I didn't take the 488 to) but I've also heard that despite brakes having a different way of functioning, the 488 isn't immune to brake failure. If the 458 has a problem that Ferrari acknowledged (or not), it may have been carried out to the 488.
Namely this very famous accident that happened in my country is attributed to the same pedal hardover and zero stopping power:
(Estoril circuit, braking from the start/finish straight to turn 1, from nearly 300kph to a second gear corner)
To be honest I don't drive the 488 as much as I should. I bought the car May of this year (it's a 2016) with 600 miles on it and since then I've put maybe 800 miles on it. Since participating in this thread, I've become aware of that video of the 488 crash at Estoril, and it's a bit unnerving. It's the only 488 brake failure that's been "reported", so let's wait and see. When I first had my problem on my 2012 458 which I purchased in 2013, I researched and found at least 10 posts related to brake failure. And I think brake failure is the wrong term to describe the problem, as the brakes don't completely fail. The booster fails to activate somehow, and the pedal is so hard that if you're going fast and reaction times are minimized, you are in big trouble. The car simply does not stop as fast without the booster. The problem can be replicated by driving down a road with no one around and no one in front of you, get up to say 50 mph, put the car in neutral and kill the engine, wait a few seconds and apply the brakes. Sure it slows down, but with a rock hard pedal and at maybe 20% of normal capacity. And that's if you stand on it.
Looking at that crash, only the driver can tell us exactly what happened. After coming in fast and experiencing the brake issue, he may have let off the brakes and tried to carve as wide a turn as possible so he could mitigate the frontal impact and try to take it on the passenger side with the car sideways. As it did.
Obviously every experienced driver knows you can't hit the brakes once you've hit the turn too fast, or if so only minimally. Tires can only 100% brake or 100% turn, but never a combination of the two at 100%. Performing one action or the other reduces the ability of the tires to do either. Add in inertia, physics, too much input from the driver, etc........you get the drift (no pun intended).
I had a 2005 F430 with ceramic brakes, I logged over 8000 miles on that car, and it was the most confidence inspiring Ferrari I've ever driven. Granted, that's probably because it had the equal braking and weight characteristics, but nowhere near the acceleration of the 458, and certainly not even close to the 488.
The 488 is so unbelievably fast I can barely shift through the gears without hitting redline after each successive shift.
To come back to your question, I may sell the 488 for other reasons. That being living in Southern California, and the rise of cell phone use and people texting in cars has made it stressful to enjoy even a leisurely Sunday in the Ferrari. Even a Toyota Prius is like a lifted 4x4 next to the Ferrari, no one can see you as it is and you have to drive defensively at all times.
Plus the fundamentals of exotic car ownership are changing rapidly. I'm sure many of you out there can relate to what I'm saying without me having to spell it out.
So I'm sitting on a gorgeous 2016 488 spyder with 1400 miles and I may just get out while the car has still retained much of the value I paid for it. This was my first spyder and the cowl shake with the top down is still something I'm not used to, and I'm having a hard time accepting. So most of the time the top is up. I honestly would be perfectly happy with another F430 coupe. Maybe I'll get a McLaren instead. Time will tell, let's hope for the best and that Ferrari made sure the 488 didn't carry over the 458's brake booster issue.
Indeed, let's hope so citivibe
Just had lunch at my Ferrari dealership with the FCA club. The mechanics said that we needed to be aware that if we did not use our seatbelt son the 488, the park break could be engaged while we were driving without us knowing it.
He said that the seatbelt click, was required to disengage automatically the park break. He also said, that they are getting a few break jobs from 488 owners who didn't know that....
Hmmm. And I just discovered that I cannot back the car, if my door is open. I tried without my son's direction to park the car, while looking out the open driver door. But every time I tried, the gear simply shifted from reverse to neutral. Only when I closed the door, did it stay in reverse.
I love these Ferrari quirks... especially after driven them for many years.. anyone else have other quirks?
Did you ask about brake failures / hard brake pedal?
No, but my 488 has always been "hard", but getting used to it..
HI Andrew , Could you please contact me I could really do with your help about this ... cant talk publicly but could you please send me a message
Another possible case of this in the UK on Jan.6th. A 458 Spider crashed in Bath, a national newspaper reports the 458 was approaching a roundabout, failed to slow and crashed through two solid bollards before going into a residents garden. The report has indicated the driver said the throttle stuck open, however this sounds like the situation I mentioned earlier in this thread which I, and other instructors working for the same company,have experienced when track instructing when the driver hits the brake and also the throttle at the same time, the revs do not shut down, the driver presses the brake harder which increases the throttle causing the vehicle to not slow to any significant effect.
HI barry , I was the driver do you have any contact details so I could discuss this with you
I'll pm you my contact details.
I have had a 458 for about two months, the break pedal has always seemed overly heavy. I approached a redlight with a good amount of speed today, the pedal was so stiff I thought I was going to break something, the brakes had little to no effect. It was a high pucker moment, and frankly scared the hell out of me. I just barely missed rear ending someone. This is the second time this has happened. The first I thought was just me getting used to the car, today was confirmation something is wrong. The car is CPO and under warranty, so I guess I’ll call the dealership tomorrow.
Same thing happened to me but Ferrari strangely didn’t find any fault which seems to be a common occurrence. They replaced the brake booster valve to be on the safe side but then later I sold the car and the new owner encountered the same problem.
Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I followed the dealerships suggestion and repeatedly mashed the brakes from 80 to 30mph and the difference in breaking is amazing. This really should be documented somewhere in the manual.
I’ve tracked my 488 four times in the past year, mostly on a hard braking track where I routinely hit 170+mph and then slow to ~40mph. No issues related to the brakes, but after 20 minutes into a hot session, they softened up a bit & I attribute that to needing better quality brake fluid like SRF. The 488 brakes do require noticeably more pedal pressure compared to a gt3.
What a sentence. Classy and intelligent. Nice job, Nuno.
I didn't know about the first (the possibility of the car automatically engaging parking brake if seatbelt not fastened), but I was aware of the second. All safety features present on most cars with an automatic transmission.
You're too kind. Thank you!
Get the car back to the seller under warranty !