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Is a Dino considered a Ferrari ?

Discussion in '206/246' started by zvdxb, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    Dec 30, 2006
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    If you look at the chassis and engine of an ASA, you'll see the same Ferrari manufacturing methods, the same philosophy. The difference with the "Ferrarina" is that the Dino shared the production line in the same factory with the Daytona, the GTC/4 and other Ferrari models in the 70s.
    In the fabulous Franco Varisco book "ASA, L'epopea della Ferrarina" you can find a document for the seat colors published by Bertone during the Salone di Torino 1961 in which we can read Ferrari "Dino" 1000. (© Giorgio Nada Editore - Franco Varisco).

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  2. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Well, let's try to be clear: I don't intend to prove anything, including absolutely distinguishing a "Dino" from the "other" "Ferraris", because to me it always has been one. And I always have been in love with that car.
    Hope I am making my intentions clear: I don't have any hidden agenda.

    But that Enzo intended to create a different brand, or category, with "Dino" is clear: for reasons that are best known to him, "Dino" was for his cars that didn't have 12 cylinders engine. And he didn't put the "Ferrari" name anywhere on that car.
    He registered the brand as such, and anyone knowing how the International Vehicle Numbers works can see that everything is plain for everyone to see: the "ZDF...." used for the last batch of 308GT4 means "Dino brand - the "D", manufactured in Maranello the "F".
    I think (think...) by the way that if he used the name of his deceased son, it proves how close that brand was to his heart.

    Then, about the cars that didn't have 12 cylinders engine: from 1968 to 1975 they were the 206, 246, 308GT4 and 308GTB: they all were badged "Dinos"...and furthermore, they should be no "Ferrari" badge or script on an original "Dino".
    That didn't stop the french reference magazine, under the pen of José Rosinski, titling the first road test of the Dino 308GT4: "The best Ferrari to this day". Or Pozzi to advertise it as "The small Ferrari" (= "La petite Ferrari")

    Only when the 308GT4 sales didn't take off in the US did Enzo Ferrari decide to to took his phone and call Leonardo Fioravanti, who has already designed the 308GTB in 1970, but has put the design on the shelf, that the "Dino 206/246" was to have a twin seater successor after all and please do it as quick as you can, and give me a pretty car; so Fioravanti resurrected the "246 successor" he has designed in 1970, and that gave us the 308 GTB.
    And Enzo also decided that, in the meantime, the 308GT4, as the only car from Marenello imported in the US at the time, should have its appeal enhanced with "Ferrari" scripts and badges.
    If the 308GT4 had sold better in the US, then the production 308 GTBs would have been still badged "Dinos"; perhaps the 488GTB would still be?

    (By the way, the car that saved Ferrari from oblivion was the 308 GTS, itself in some way...a "Dino": of the 3200 carbed 308 GTS produced, no less than 67% went to the US; without the 308 GTS, there would be no "Ferrari" whatsoever...).

    So: if the question is: is the "Dino 246" a Ferrari?
    - the cold, legal answer is: no; it is not written Ferrari anywhere on it. The "Old Man" decided there would be no "Ferrari" badge and script on that car, and who I am to decide otherwise?
    - in filiation and blood, of course it is: it has even been manufactured at the same place and with the same methods and parts.
    -to my eye, and to quote the Mayor: "A "Dino" is not a Ferrari; it is better"

    Rgds
     
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  3. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Ditto. And if my memory serves me right, during the fifty years or so from 1969 to today, it never, ever really went out of style; perhaps a slight dip at the end of the seventies, when it wasn't new anymore, but it became a classic, and an exception, very quickly, which says much, actually...

    Rgds
     
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  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    The Dino has always been a classic to my eyes. I was absolutely mesmerised by the first one I saw, a white 246 GTS, when I was 10 years old in 1973. It was parked at some function rooms opposite where I lived where a wedding reception was taking place from about 10 am to 8 pm and I looked/stared at it for most of the day. I was fascinated by the air intakes on the side of the body, the beautiful curved rear window, well actually everything about it with all its amazing details. My father had a 330 GT 2+2 at the time and I was obsessed with him getting one, and I bought the Exchange & Mart publication every week looking for one from then on. I do remember being intrigued by the fact that it did not say Ferrari anywhere on it, and only said Ferrari on the tax disc. I didn't really care what it was called as I absolutely loved it. I had never been so excited by anything as much as that Dino before.
     
  5. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    One of the first, if not the first one I saw "in the flesh" (the very first one I saw was on TV, in "the Persuaders"...) was in 1978, after leaving school and entering the University. I was 18, at the Lycée Poincaré in Nancy at the time; there was that silver 246 GTS parked along the sidewalk eveyday, or almost everyday, and I still remember spending a few minutes staring at it everyday. It is a beautiful thing through and through, no doubt; and the engine makes the right music. I still feel excited today when I see one. Still my favourite car of all times.

    Rgds
     
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  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I had seen Danny Wilde's Dino in the Persuaders too. My favourite TV program of the time. Still love it today.
     
  7. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    When it aired on the french TV for the first time in 1971, I was 11, still living in the family house in the middle of nowhere on the french-german border. The chances to actually see a "Dino" (or any Ferrari, shall I say -any other Ferrari? -) was less than witnessing an invasion of Martians. I have the show on DVDs; it does not take to much space, as there are only 24 episodes...still watching one or the other regularly, even if I know them by heart.
    The show still airs from time to time on the french TV; it was hugely popular in France during the seventies.

    Rgds
     
  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Fantastic!!! And the brilliant John Barry music too!!!

     
  9. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    The DBS - with an "in line six" engine - ownership today is well known and its wherabouts are clear, but is the "Dino" (00818 (?), if my memory, etc...) is still un-accounted for? I know it was in a collection in, or near, Naples for a long time (to a Mr Nazzaro, again if my memory...) but is it still there today?

    Rgds
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I do not know where the Dino is. My father also had a 1973 DBS V8 FI single headlight in the same colour as Brett's DBS 6.
     
  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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  12. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    My father did not like the Aston very much. Sills got rotten very quickly. He completely rebuilt it.

    Somebody here may know where Danny's Dino is????
     
  13. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Indeed. The Dino is one of the great Ferraris IMO, and fully deserving of its name.
     
  14. JG333SP

    JG333SP Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2010
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    My opinion, I love how Ferrari won't put out another Dino and believe me I wish they would. But that's part of Ferrari's dilemma.

    Whether it's the 206/246, 308 or the Fiats the Dino crowd are like Rush fans-they just know, it's that simple. And if somehow you got your hands on a Stratos at one point...damn. Seriously, damn.

    It's a branding issue, and Ferrari would cannibalize at least some current sales even if a new Dino was placed at a considerably higher price point than the Cali/Portofino. Too many variables for the guys behind the gate, so they'll always do something else before putting out a new Dino. That part I love: These adamant fans want the car, and Ferrari the strongest brand in the biz (by far) won't put another version of a sub-brand they already own...too many variables, too much potential confusion, so onto the next idea.

    So is a Dino an Fcar? Nope, but that's alright with me. It's also not bad being a Rush fan.
     
  15. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2008
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    I have a question related to this issue: if a Dino is not a true Ferrari, why would Classiche "certify" it? Are they certifying that it's "almost a Ferrari"? Fred
     
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  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #167 miurasv, Feb 11, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    As the company that actually built/manufactured the Dino branded cars, it is appropriate that Ferrari as a company is the one that should certify/authenticate them.
     
  17. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2004
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    Has Ferrari ever made any written comments in the last 20 years that says Dino “is not” a Ferrari and has corrected what it deems it is? I am confused!
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Of the Classiche Certificates of Authenticity in the Classiche Red Books that I have seen, Dinos are certified as Dino.

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    Above pic posted by you previously in this thread.



    ...whereas Ferraris are certified as Ferrari.

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    DD Classics pic.
     
  19. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2004
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    You have to admit, it’s confusing and not definitive. If you get a letter from VW, it’s on VW letterhead,. No confusion. If it’s from Porsche, it’s on Porsche letterhead, if it’s Bentley....and so on. No confusion. There is no differentiation in Red Books, format etc. says issued by Ferrari etc. As far as I know, Ferrari has never made any official statement in the past decades about what is a Dino and what is a Ferrari. Almost as though they don’t want to address it.
     
  20. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    its always been confusing - it was a punt in the dark by ferrari to produce the dino outside the brand but wanted ferrari money for the car, buyers baulked at paying silly money for the car and [dealers] had to retro fit ferrari badges to sell them. Utter stupidity at the time. Its main rival was the Porsche 911 - did you see Porsche selling it as the 911 but nothing to do with the Porsche brand.

    The homoglation certificate states the car as model - Dino.

    Personally when i get asked (told in most cases) its not a ferrari i say -so what - dont you like the car! Its still an iconic car of timeless design. Beat that 308GT4, GTB,328,348,355 series :)


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  21. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    Bravo, Tony! Fred
     
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  22. Rory J

    Rory J Formula Junior
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    Funny enough, I was talking to the head of the Classiche department on my last factory visit towards the end of last year and inquired, hypothetically, about starting the "red book" process on a 246 GTS my father has owned for the past 30+ years. I was told that Classiche is intended primarily for the "important Ferraris." Ouch. For the record, there was a Dino sitting in the Classiche department awaiting inspection.
     
  23. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

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    At least he implied it was a Ferrari!
     
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  24. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #175 miurasv, Feb 12, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
    I can't believe he said that! Was it Luigino Barp and are you sure you didn't misunderstand him?

    The gorgeous Dino, although not a Ferrari, was most certainly built by Ferrari, alongside Ferraris, and is one of the most important cars in Ferrari's history.
     

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