Is Ferrari confiscating and crushing replicas?

that's exactly what they did to Lord Brockett...but...don't those replicas still exist & around somewhere?

 

I see no difference in building a fake whichever way it was presented. A fake is a fake is a fake. It does not have any connection to Ferrari and no historical significance, so where's the point? The point is in that fakers want to fake being far more welthy and lucky than they really are, which is pretty pathetic. On top of this they are being ripped off by those who build the replicas, which is quite funny when you think about it. Best wishes, Kare

 

spot on look at me look at me i'm driving a SWB/GTO.
Ask 'em the question is it a fake.
Rip the badges of 'em.

 

i disagree slightly... i bet you would be surprised that some people do it to create something with their hands... and some do it because they will never be able to afford the real thing and its the closest they will ever get... its the closest they will get to the experience etc...

Yes... most do it to show off an be a portray more wealth... and yes... i hate it too.

so... then how do we feel about the P4 replicas?

 

Be careful. The sacred right to bear arms, whether as part of a well-regulated militia or not, is specific to the United States, and is not recognized in the rest of the world.

On the other hand, some countries like Italy do have laws against the unauthorized use of trademarks, and those laws can be enforced. I know, it might come as a shock to many, but the laws even apply to US citizens.

Anyway, I am delighted that the fakes are being crushed, and sorry that the fakers are not being crushed with their fakes.

And our esteemed fellow Fchatter can spare us his usual intervention talking about P4/5 21st century transformations, which continue to be absolutely irrelevant to the issue of faking and destroying vintage Ferraris.

 

Perfect Kare, you say it all. Fakes, by definition, are owned by fakers.

 

would I be correct in saying that these fakes,few would drive like the car they pretend to be ie 250GTE chassis to a GTO rep ect.

 

I would also just like to add... that I am not a fan of the 99.9% of the replicas out there. The only ones that I do give a modicum of respect to are the cars that are EXACT replicas... these cars often cost over half a million etc... again, I respect the person/builders/craftsman's work that went into it... NOT the project itself. I would never set out personally to build one of these cars myself... But if you have ever built anything with your two hands before when you see a high quality car that has a damn near perfect body or an accurate chassis etc... lots of homework time and money went into it and you have to respect that. You don't have to support it or the ideology behind it... but its one thing to go out and buy replacement parts... its another to create it from raw material.

Again, I don't like them... I am not a fan. I don't condone it... Its one of the reasons I am not a big fan of the shelby cobra and for that matter even the daytona coupe. I love the daytona coupe... unfortunately there are so many damn kits out there that it just kind of ruins it

 

Mangled 430 Scuderia:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140146230&postcount=72

 

430 Scuderia Fia... excuse me, Ferraris, are well worth mangling in order to create cars as wonderful as your P4/5!

 

My feelings exactly!

I think that this is one of the first reasons that I object to "replicas": It diminishes the value of the original.

If someone wants to build or assemble his own car, I do see reason to respect the work, time and money that goes into it. But I have a lot more respect for a kit car that was designed as a kit car (such as the "Artero" or the old "Bradley GT," though it was an ugly design) than I have for one that tries to mimic a Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

In the end, I think it comes down to the badging: A homemade or even home-modified "Ferrari" is not a Ferrari. So leave off the badges, or design your own. Now you have a car that might (or might not) resemble a Ferrari and it's your own personal tribute to a car you don't have, but you're not representing it as something it's not.

 

Actually, there is precedent for the U.S. government (and others) seizing counterfeits. If the item involved contains stolen intellectual property (e.g., a Ferrari badge) I wouldn't count on it being protected. Counterfeit a package of Microsoft Windows software and the government isn't going to compensate you for the stuff inside the box. Instead they will stuff you inside a cell.

If you buy a counterfeit gold U.S. twenty dollar coin from a shady rare coin dealer, for example, the government can confiscate it and does not owe you anything.

Exactly.

Yes, fakes vary in terms of quality, but a masterful fake with a Ferrari badge on it raises the same issues that a Fiero/MR2 "Testarossa" does. A masterful fake of a vintage car without any badging probably would be acceptable under U.S. law.

Only Ferraris should be badged as Ferraris. Only Porsches should be badged as Porsches. Etc. The property distinction ends as soon as someone steals those brands for his garage creation.

 

i know what you're saying, but the comparison isn't exactly the same

there are 2 distinctions i think being discussed here, and i haven't seen with clear certainty which Ferrari has been going after

just so i can get this clear, for me and anyone else wondering still...

1. is the rebody on a Ferrari chassis
2. outright replica, not based on an existing Ferrari chassis


between these 2, can be split again...

1.a. Ferrari based rebody, advertised/sold truthfully as a rebody, and original vin
1.b. Ferrari based rebody, falsely advertised/sold as if actual of the rebody

2.a. replica, advertised/sold using Ferrari name, symbols and/or badging
2.b. replica, advertised/sold, NOT using Ferrari name, symbols and/or badging (many of which have owners install badging after purchase)


...of these, I can see 1.b. and 2.a. , possibly even 2.b. as liable to prosecution, and possible seizure

however, since in each of these the purchaser could either be a victim of fraud, or are not "grand theft", then compensation to the purchaser is going to be required if the whole car is wanted, else the order would only be able to stipulate removal of the "intellectual property" identified, being badging in this example

as for 1.a. , I can not see any sane justification or legal recourse for seizure...personally i would shoot anyone who tried, court order or not!

 

I hate to wade back into this swamp at this late stage of the thread but since I have a vested interest due to my 1952 300SL W194 project; I should mention the "ship of Thesus" paradox with regard to either a car that were previously destroyed or parted out and then resurected and restored. In some cases two or more cars especially early ones without chassis numbers and or missing data tags have been found to be the contructed and are in fact the same car comprised of genuine parts from the original vehicle. I do not have a clue what category one would put these. Replica? or Recreation? Both deemed to be original? Crush em both? In my case; just for the record I found what appears to be an original engine block and I have created the car around this as a starting point. The Factory will not give me any documentation without me sending them the block for analysis...(That will happen... NOT) I have also found an original clock and tachometer from one of the real W194's.

 

Does this mean that a Dino with a Ferrari Badge and Prancing horse is subject to seizure.. I'm just sayin'...

 

There is a big difference between software and vehicles. There is also a big difference between a man producing a car and a company producing a car to (albeit... try) make a profit.

What does the replica mob say of the piper P4 cars?

Does the fact that Napolis bought one because he didn't think he would be able to find one or afford one (i thought i read that in the 0846 files correct me if I am wrong) make him a faker??? His intentions were not that he was purchasing 0846... he thought he was purchasing a very good "replica" of the car...

I mean this with all due respect Napolis. I hope you can understand my position and if anything am more of taking the other side of the argument just to have a little fun and maybe prove a point...it probably won't happen... and perhaps my logic is wrong... but it exercises the mind.

And of course one could argue that stripping the body off of an enzo and putting a different body on it that is a modern interpretation of one of the offers favorite race cars is a replica move... and then doing so again to a 430... you could make the argument. I would make the argument... I wouldn't mean it... but I could make it. I just don't think everything is as black and white as some people make things out to be. Of course P4/5 was constructed by pinninfarina and even blessed by ferrari... but for arguments sake... so has the 250 California at the museum... These cars were awarded blessings... So let me ask you this... whats the difference between insanity and genius many times???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


success

 

Excellent idea!

 

430:

Car built by a large, public, highly diversified profit-maximizing conglomerate called Fiat, in the 21st century. Enzo Ferrari plays no role any more, because he is long dead. Industrially produced in large quantities.

Any vintage Ferrari:

Car built by a small, independent, struggling racing car company personnaly led by a genius called Enzo Ferrari, between 1948 and 1969. Hand built in small quantities.

Apples and oranges, melons and pears, pineapples and rasberries!

 

Julio, great answer about the Dino's, I never liked them with the ferrari badges on the car or the steering wheel..mine is without any but the pozzi ferrari badge inside.

But I dont agree that modern cars are treated differently. I have seen too many 360's molested with wings, splitters and carbon doors pretending being a 360 GT. Or even after market plastic add -ons on any car

To me things are meant as they were meant by the designer. It is hard to find any example that shows differently.

Ciao
Oscar

 

Are you talking about the 308 GT4 Dinos that had the TSB showing how to add the Ferrari badge to them since they were almost sale-proof without them?

 

Minor point about 0846. When I bought it I thought it's chassis was a chassis Piper commissioned in Modena in 1972 built to P4 chassis blueprints by Enzo Ferrari built up with P4 factory spares bought by David from Enzo. No existing Ferrari's had been killed to build it.

As for Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina when I commissioned it from Pininfarina it didn't have Ferrari's blessing, that came after it's design was locked and an Enzo was indeed used as a
donor.

P 4/5 Competizione was started without Ferrari's blessing but I remain hopeful. A 430 Scuderia was used as a donor but this project is really more like the Breadvan as it will be raced at The 24 Hours of Nurburgring.

 

Really. So real Cobras, Daytona Coupes, GT40s, Porsche Speedsters and 550 Spyders, Bugatti T35s, Mclaren M6s, Ferrari 250 Testa Rossas and 250GTOs are devalued because they are replicated in significant numbers?

 

I think to some extent they are. Cobra's for example. There are so many that it effects the perception of them. In the 70ies they sold for more than 275 GTB 4's. Today they don't and I think the huge number of replicas has something to do with it.

Fewer of the other replicas you spoke of exist and they affect real cars less. If there were as many 250 GTO replicas as Cobra replicas IMO it would affect real GTO values especially as some Ferrari Chassis GTO replicas are close to real cars as are many Cobra replicas.

 

To me, Cobras and 550 Spyders are like Louis Vuitton handbags, usually when you see one, you think its a fake first.

 

Exactly.