Is it time for gun control in Washington?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country
-many 1st world countries with strict gun laws have higher mass shootings per capita than USA.

USA has high murder rates, but Greenland is higher. Interesting. Looking at just Gun murders doesn’t seem comparable considering people can pick a knife to murder if a gun isn’t available. Seems looking at murder in general is better. But, USA murder rates are still very high.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

Backing out a few liberal utopias with high crime rates, dramatic social, crime, education, and economic issues like Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, etc - I assume USA country side is far safer than the higher populated Europe as a whole. Population density does seem to drive crime.

The USA is plagued by a for-profit, hypocritical, immoral and unconstitutional, self-serving “justice” system. It has ruined generations of communities for statistics and immoral law enforcement, to fill for-profit prisons and get federal money (for police salaries, toys, pensions, etc) based on a community’s crime stats. The education system is quite flawed too. The issues are compounded and not just guns exclusively. We are also not mono-cultural, or mono-racial, which makes governing more difficult, even universal healthcare and education more difficult.

As most Americans, I’m pro-gun. We believe in reasonable gun laws. Relying on the govt, especially police, is moronic. Especially in rural areas where response time is literally 1-2 hours. Even in populated areas, cops take 15-60 minutes to respond.

Thomas Jefferson said, “I’d rather the inconveniences of too much Liberty than that of too little.” Somewhat relatable to this convo.


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In Europe, bomb attacks are far more prevalent than in USA, but people don’t cry for restrictions on bomb materials or border control like they do for USA gun control. I find it interesting why USA guns are such a common topic for foreigners when mass shootings, murders, mass attacks, etc is not exclusively a USA problem.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Terrorism-in-Western-Europe.png/1379px-Terrorism-in-Western-Europe.png


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Cars kill people

And a whole bunch of other stupid arguments rolled out by the gun nuts, fwits

 

You're gunna end up with stress,ulsers,brain aneurysms,anxiety and every other related problem if you keep worrying about these dykheads whom think guns are ok.
You know as well as most here,when 'they' start pulling out alternative ways of dying/killing they're on a hiding to nothing.

 

And remember, the answer to the problem of too many guns… is more guns.

 

Which ever way you want to look at it 99% of the blokes in the pro gun mob here and elsewhere in the world are mere poosies compared to this mob:

 

A bunch of ad hominem instantaneously. This is why nothing gets done in our world. Idk about Australia, but in the USA, identity / bipartisan politics is prevalent allowing politicians to run rampant. People are too concerned about insulting the other party than holding their own party accountable.

Managing crime is far more complex than banning it/something. It’s too intertwined with economics, healthcare, education, “justice” system, etc. Many things need to change.

Look at the first world EU countries that have strict gun laws but higher mass shootings per capita than USA, add in other mass attacks like cars in crowds, stabbings, bombings, etc and it’s probably more alarming.

The USA, specifically the top 3-5 major cities, does have higher than acceptable violent crime rates. Addressing it is more complex than banning guns (in those top few cities, guns are already banned, plus criminals can’t legally own them anywhere in USA). The prohibition is what created modern/organized crime in the USA. The “war on drugs” has decimated communities for generations. Outright banning something doesn’t work. Criminals don’t follow laws. Reasonable regulations that are enforced is what matters.

Anyone who says something other than, “BAN ALL GUNS” is a “gun nut” I guess. The rapid ad hominem is a sad display.


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There are likely more guns in USA than people. Most aren’t registered, but legally acquired, so it’s hard to know for sure. If guns caused the crimes, there would be a lot more crime.

Crime rates are more due to cultural and economic issues in the country. Communities held down by a flawed “justice” system ruining people’s economic opportunities due to excessive victimless crime enforcement.

In the majority of USA (rural areas) 10 year old kids play with .22’s and 410 shotguns with no supervision, regularly, as part of their culture. Where I live, nearly everyone over 18 years old shoots “assault rifles” whether they vote Democrat or Republican (most people my age dominantly vote for a party but still hate either option). What you see on the media is not an accurate representation of statistics, USA Gun culture, or USA politics (the people, not the politicians).

I love late night (10pm-2am) car meets. Hundreds of cars and people. White red necks with huge diesel trucks and urban black people with Mopars. 3/4 guys have guns on display. Rednecks like their 1911s while the ghetto people have 33rd Glock mags sticking out of their waist band. It’s a hilarious display of gun culture. But you know what, it’s legal in my state, and everyone gets along. People mingling among cultures and respecting one another. These meets often happen in my city, which is regularly listed in the top 10 safest cities in the country. There’s the smell of pot everywhere and drinking, fireworks, music, etc. Europeans would think they’re about to be killed but here we are all enjoying life and respecting one another. Nothing like what the media / politicians convey.

There is a lot happening in the USA right now, politically speaking. The media and politicians intentionally stray from reasonable demands, presenting solutions, or respectful communication because that gives them the freedom to do nothing and blame the other party.

Idk why non-USA people are so focused on our politics. Regardless, the display of immediate ad-hominem against me is representative of what’s causing these issues and causing no solutions to be enacted, because everything is just extreme impotent reactions (insults rather than logic).


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Well Jake whatever you've just tried to justify the USA's mentality on guns,it doesn't bring back the 4 Aussies that immediately come to mind when they were gunned down for no reason.:
Azuma Bennet
Brenton Estorffe
Christopher Lane
Justine Damond.

So yes Jake we as a country are pretty well incensed at the USA's thoughts on gun ownership and what it's impact is on the world stage...something you've quite obviously forgotten about.......that there is a world outside of the USA.

 

Ironically I was publishing stats on global statistics. Continued ad hominem…


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FIFY

 

Not everyone here agrees with Simon or Moretti but there's no point getting involved - it's all emotion.

Meanwhile here in Sydney, Australia, one ethnic group dominates drug and gang crime and gun murders occur regularly. Women and children get shot too. Odly enough, despite our strict gun laws, their seems to be little impediment to their activities.

 

Not only John and meself Ian.

And yep re your problem.
Usually though they're better shots than the last situation and all your 'events' are targeted hits,not random massacres,I personally don't mind what your biker/criminal elements are doing.....gradually they'll all shoot each other off.

 

Seems you’re focused on mass shootings mainly. Why don’t you acknowledge that there are many first world EU countries with higher mass shootings per capita than USA? Add in all the bombings, trucks in crowds, mass stabbing, etc that EU gets and USA has far less massacres per capita than your media may imply, when compared to other countries.

Gun crime is high in the USA, due to inner city drug crime. Those cities have guns banned, and drugs. Eliminating those issues is complex though, but doable imo.

New Zealand is higher than USA with mass shootings per capita due to the 2019 shooting attack that killed 51 people!!! But this list is EU, USA, and Canada:

Average (Mean) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015):

Norway — 1.888
Serbia — 0.381
France — 0.347
Macedonia — 0.337
Albania — 0.206
Slovakia — 0.185
Switzerland — 0.142
Finland — 0.132
Belgium — 0.128
Czech Republic — 0.123
United States — 0.089
Austria — 0.068
Netherlands — 0.051
Canada — 0.032
England — 0.027
Germany — 0.023
Russia — 0.012
Italy — 0.009

You know, there is a world outside of the USA and Australia, right? For some reason, people are so intrigued with the USA. It’s an inferiority complex imo. However, I must admit, USA politics are comically (and depressingly) entertaining.


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Mass shootings are horrible. Any unatural death is horrible. We could save a lot of lives by concentrating on causes that are responsible for the greatest number of deaths but politicians prefer to attack that which will get them reelected. They don't care about us, they care about the gravy train their elected position provides.

In 2020 in the US mass shooting caused 611 deaths. Almost 700,000 died from heart disease. Get everyone to eat a few less steaks and smoke a few less cigarettes? Or maybe teach driving a little better?

Politicians need a boogy man. Something to scare us, something we will follow blindly to give them money and power to solve. It used to be easy "Communists". Since the cold war ended politicians needed a new boogy man. "Guns".

 

Inferiority complex ??!!

You're deluded, we can send our kids to school without thinking they may get killed .............. you lot recommend arming the teachers

 

Guns only appear as a media issue sporadically.

The principle boogy man of the western world is climate change.

No mainstream political party anywhere dares to question the ideology of climate.

The principle ideology of politicians throughout the western world is statism - the state (government and corporate) alone can solve human problems. Climate is the perfect invented problem that only the state can "solve".

 

In 2022 “mass” shootings is up to 506 so far this year. We just don’t want that here. They happen, but rarely.

 

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Dude, per capita, the USA isn’t as bad as you think or media portrays. Conveniently you’re ignoring the statistics. I’m no more afraid of my kids being killed in school than them getting struck by lightening.


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They are in far greater danger from the crap they are being taught.

 

Thats true too but it is a media issue here more than sporadically

 

The problem with the media is they exaggerate issues and gain viewership based on pushing emotional responses versus logic. Hence why the people in this thread respond to published statistics with personal insults against me and putting words in my mouth.

All crime should be addressed. Laws should be enforced. The USA does have high gun crime (and violent crime in general) compared to other first world countries. It needs addressed. Let’s be realistic though; the USA will always have higher crime than the avg 1st world country due to our vast racial, cultural, economic, large metro areas, etc differences. However, implying the USA has an above average mass shooting problem is factually wrong. If these anti-gun people want change, they will have to use logic and reasoning instead of ad hominem, and demand reasonable changes such as addressing many issues at once like “justice” system, education system, healthcare, welfare systems, etc.

I’m far safer in my rural USA area than other first world countries. And nearly every country white guy and half their wives have guns on them. USA cities throw off the overall crime statistics. However, this thread is about mass shootings, which isn’t exclusively a USA issue. Don’t let the media/politicians fool you on that….


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Our catch and release justice system and closing our network of residential state mental hospitals and a willingness to use them is I believe responsible for the major share of our national crime/violence and homeless issues.

Another item never brought up in these conversations. A very large percentage of our national violent crime stats are from just a small handful of cities. Out of control cities with an uncontrolled feral population.

 

Most of the world's problems are a result of unintended consequences of government policies, usually (but not exclusively) from the left.

e.g. every country with a homelessness problem (and in Australia this is an issue in our largest cities, Sydney and Melbourne) can trace back in part to decisions made to close mental hospitals, more than a generation ago.

Every "reform" has a negative downside - there are too many to list. The only winners are the inexorably growing ranks of public servants and the consulting companies that feed off them.

The only solution is a government that actively rolls back failed regulation, but it will never happen because every program has parasitical vested interests attached. I don't have a solution for this, it's just depressing.