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Is the F12 a complement to the 458, or is it just a better car?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by ibesuc, May 9, 2020.

  1. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2009
    480
    NY
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    Steve
    Over the past twenty five years or so, the mid engined V8 Ferrari has been the 'sports car' and the front engined V12 has been the 'grand tourer'. Hence each model complemented each other.

    But... Ferrari has progressed to the point where both the F12 and 458 handle like amazing, tossable sports cars. And, the F12 is a 'front mid engined' car. It's almost as if the case for a 458 over an F12 (for obvious reasons other than price and open top driving) is now moot. F12 (and the 812 following it) is THE Ferrari road car. While the 550, 575 and 599 were big comfy GTs, the F12 is very much a sports car. Now it is almost as if the F12 is just the next level up.

    I guess the point of this thread is just to note that as far as their practical application, the gap between the F12 and 458 has narrowed.

    Thoughts?
     
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  3. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
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    I have owned both with many thousands of miles each: they are two different driving experiences IMO and thus complement each other, not replace.
    The 458 has more of an “exotic” boy-racer feel; the F12 more gentlemen’s express but like 007 can kill you in an instant.
    The 458 makes you feel like an elite professional athlete; the F12 makes you feel like the team owner.
     
  4. Tamahal

    Tamahal Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2019
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    TAMAHAL
    Oh.......... so well put !!!!! Love it !!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  5. Will Motivation

    Social Subscribed

    May 9, 2020
    36
    Columbus, Ohio
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    Will Motivation
    Definitely a great answer. Love that analogy! I'm also in the market for one of the other, leaning towards the F12... I'm at that ownership age and I have a Huracan when I need to feel like the team athlete :)
     
  6. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Chief Ten Bears
    Ferrari slotted the F12 as their high market performance sports car. The FF was marketed as the GT in the lineup. The 458 was their lower tier production sports car. Their descriptions are very accurate. See their corporate business and sales slides on the offerings. ;)
     
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  8. Pazzo009

    Pazzo009 Formula Junior
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    Mar 30, 2014
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    Italiafan summed it up succinctly and eloquently....I had a 458 and now a F12. He's right.

    I would also add that F12's are more rare. I always referred to the F12 and 812 as the "gentleman's Ferrari".

    The 458 is more of a go kart, where the F12 is a great engineering example of a GT car that you can cruise at 150 effortlessly and comfortably.
     
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  9. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,666
    France
    I would not agree the 550, 575 and 599 were "big comfy GTs" - the 550, 575 and 599 were already sports cars that could compete with the contemporary V8s.
    I have tracked my 550, 575 and 599 and they were far from ridiculous - but they were different from the mid-engined V8s in a similar way that the F12 is: more weight, raw power rather than agility and delicacy (although in parallel to the V8s, balance improved from generation to generation).
     
  10. wrs

    wrs F1 Veteran
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    Jul 11, 2015
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    I have the 812 and had the 488 and the 812 is better than the 488 so in the same way, I would think the F12 is better than the 458.
     
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  11. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    In what way? Usability, comfort, performance? I have an F12 and love it but never owned a 458.
     
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  13. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    For me I love the idea of being able to load up the hatch of the F12 and take a road trip in a bad ass car.
     
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  14. ewright

    ewright Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    517
    If I had to pick just one, it would be easily be the F12. It still feels very much like a sports car, but its versatility is unmatched by the 458.
     
  15. wrs

    wrs F1 Veteran
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    Jul 11, 2015
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    It's more comfortable, more powerful, sounds better and it's more of a daily driver. I can use it for the store because the back trunk is big enough for grocery bags and it's easy to open and close, the frunk wasn't.
     
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  16. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Today I am leaving on a road trip to play some golf with a buddy. We can easily load up 2 sets of golf bags and some small duffles. Cant do that in a 458/488 and I dont feel like taking an SUV or my raptor. This is the appeal of the 812 and F12 to me.
     
  17. 2k8SB

    2k8SB Karting

    Oct 20, 2004
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    South Florida
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    Nathan
    I've also owned and driven 1000's of miles in both. Agree with the sentiment here, they compliment each other. The 458 is the car I used to take out on a Sunday morning for a twisty road drive, smiles all the way. The F12 feels much more 'grown up', as others have said it is the more refined car, but at the same time an absolutely savage when you push on. I sold the 458 after I got the F12 thinking that the F12 was more 'superior', since then I've added a Pista back to the garage as I missed some of the characteristics of the mid engine V8 series. The F12 and Pista for me are perfect companions for every scenario.
     
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  18. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    Thats my combo along with a GT3 manual and some other vehicles sprinkled in.
     
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  19. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    655
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    Jeffrey
    I own both (and a manual GT3). The Ferrari’s are very different and complimentary. One is not better than the other- except to the individual. If you want a more aggressive drive- 458, more luxurious F12. And yet, that’s too simple as the F12 can be very exciting driven aggressively and the 458 can be luxurious.

    For me- if I could have only one- it would be the 458. I’m blessed to be able to have both and I love the F12.

    Side note: Upgrading the F12 tires to the Michelin PS4S dramatically improves the traction and performance on the street- a must upgrade. I cannot recommend this enough.
     
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  20. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Huge difference with these tires. The stock Pirellis are awful.
     
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  21. 2k8SB

    2k8SB Karting

    Oct 20, 2004
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    Nathan
    Ha! Snap, next on my list is a GT3 touring to round out the garage. Had a GT4, and regret selling it, think the GT3 touring might scratch that itch.
     
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  22. Doc_Dent

    Doc_Dent Karting

    Mar 2, 2015
    215
    Tracking UR 575 got my full attention:)
    Never tracked my 575 B4, got it serviced a few months ago.
    I guess I tend 2 treat my 575 with some sort of..... (respect for it's age) if you know what I mean:) not always though!( U will probably get excited at some point to do some serious driving:D)
    So my Q is, do U really go hard on UR's on track?
    Any alarming differences or funny sounds U notice afterwards?
    Enjoy,,,
     
  23. Terrence

    Terrence Formula Junior

    Feb 15, 2004
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    Terrence
    So well said!
     

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